Sunday, March 30, 2008

Disagreements, They're Everywhere!

Marshal has made some interesting comments and I wanted to reply to a few of them. Either side, give us your stuff.

Marshal, we certainly see things in a fundamentally different way. I really do believe though that if we met face to face and discussed we could find enough common ground to be friends.

So now Obama calls himself a Christian. Well. We can look on his stance regarding abortion and homosexual marriage to understand just waht kind of a Christian he is.

Dude!@ Look at those you would call good Christians, like yourself for example and see what they think about war and how far we go before we call it torture. ..Regardless the issues you bring up would make him a crappy Moslem so can we leave that crap behind for good.
First I guess we have a different perspectives on moral imperatives. The things you mention are 2 things I am not a part of. It has done no harm to me or you. It is personal. It effects them and their personal relationship with God. I am more worried about morality that impacts others(yes, abortion impacts the aborted).

And that's the distinction between what he says about the country and what Robertson and Falwell have said about the country. The right wing dudes have spoken about what is wrong without racial overtones.

Maybe, but the fundies also see women in a subservient position and show the same disdain or more for those who are gay or even liberal. It's not in the rhelm of racial but it is in the rhelm of seeing others as threatening instead of brothers in Christ. Why, all the liberals were responsible for 9/11, it was Gods wrath on our country.
I see not much difference in the two sides. I actually relate, through life experience more to Rev. Right(sp) than I do Falwell or Hagge or Parsley.

(re: Smedley Butler)Now you back him up with your exerpt from some joker of 100 years ago. What have his detractors said?
It was not 100 years ago and he was not a joker he was a multi medaled multi starred General in the US Marine Corps. But remember to respect the troops! :-)
I haven't really been able to find detractors beyond people at the time who were implicated in some of it. Like this in a fascist plot to overthrow FDR:

The Congressional committee report confirmed Butler's testimony:
In the last few weeks of the committee's official life it received evidence showing that certain persons had made an attempt to establish a fascist government in this country. No evidence was presented and this committee had none to show a connection between this effort and any fascist activity of any European country. There is no question that these attempts were discussed, were planned, and might have been placed in execution when and if the financial backers deemed it expedient. This committee received evidence from Maj. Gen Smedley D. Butler (retired), twice decorated by the Congress of the United States. He testified before the committee as to conversations with one Gerald C. MacGuire in which the latter is alleged to have suggested the formation of a fascist army under the leadership of General Butler. MacGuire denied these allegations under oath, but your committee was able to verify all the pertinent statements made by General Butler, with the exception of the direct statement suggesting the creation of the organization. This, however, was corroborated in the correspondence of MacGuire with his principal, Robert Sterling Clark, of New York City, while MacGuire was abroad studying the various forms of veterans organizations of Fascist character.


Now I don't know to whom it is you refer when you speak of why "they" hate us. If you mean the Muslims you are way off base to think it has anything to do with American foreign policy. They hate us because we do not accept their religion.

By they I would included most of those who feel that way. It is not a religous war but it is interesting that the right thinks it is. This is one place, the one that stuck out to me the most, that we aren't even arguing about the same thing. We need a national conversation on why they hate us. I take my stance on what they are say in foreign press etc. What do you base yours on?

Warrantless wiretapping of foreign jerkwads is essential given the state of technology these days.

I am fine with this if no US citizens are involved within the US. I am betting the vast majority of liberals would agree. That has never been a problem and was legal before Bush was even President. Unfortunately they are not using that metric now. I am for the Constitution, regardless of who is President. No exceptions. I guess that makes me an evil liberal. Either that or you don't have any idea how far this has gone.

Personality politics isn't necessarily a bad thing if the personality in question is a bad choice for office. It is a dodge to bring up personality politics when the personality of the politician is questionable. We need to be sure we aren't electing a jerk, and we need to make sure the jerk the other side is supporting is exposed for the jerk he/she is.

Yes personality is important to our reputation around the world. It is one factor in the campaign. It should not be the entire campaign. Where have you been? We did elect a jerk and the entire world knows it. He has been exposed for the jerk he is. I guess the personality politics doesn't work for avoiding that embarassing circumstance.

Who are these rich guys of whom you speak and how do YOU know they don't deserve what they've gotten? Where do you get off accusing them and calling them thieves? What the rich guy makes has nothing to do with what you make or the people beneath him in whatever company he's with.

I guess the main question here is do you think greed is a bad thing and when does it kick in? People that make 4 or 5 million a year and the company loses money is not worth it. Those below that come to work every day and do it properly should get a larger share of company profits whether the CEO is great or not. You say people should pull their bootstraps and that you want to reward hard work but it is obvious you aren't going to insist on it except for the lucky few. Reward work over wealth and you will have a far more productive society. That's my bet.