People Of Faith
A friend sent me this. I think it is quite worthy of conversation.
.....We learned how the very best of humanity had faced off with the very worst of humanity – each circling the other under the same summer sun. That epic struggle had elevated southern back-roads and backwaters onto the Great World Stage. And the fate of a people – along with the destiny of a nation – hung in the balance, for all to see.
In the end, we the children cheered, for the righteous did prevail. More than that, they performed one of the great miracles in human history: they transformed an apartheid America into a fledgling democracy, tender and delicate and new.
All progressives today proudly celebrate that achievement – and rightly so.......The implications for those who seek today to rescue and redeem U.S. society are sobering. But the facts are simple and profound: the last time U.S progressives captured the national debate and transformed politics – people of faith were at the CENTER of the movement, not stuck in its closet......
My prayer is that a critical mass of progressives can agree on two basic premises. Number one: any progressive approach to “faith in politics” that ignores the awful CRIMES of religiously-inspired people is dishonest, inauthentic and can never achieve emancipatory ends.
Number two: at the same time, any approach that fails to honor and embrace the POSITIVE contributions of religiously inspired people is also wrong-headed – foolishly and needlessly shutting progressives off from our own history, proud achievements and present sources of vital support.
While I don't consider myself a "Christian" or "Buddhist" or such I do believe in the tenets of their better nature. Maybe we should be looking at how we are similar rather than how we are different.
posted by Ron at 6:27 PM
13 Comments:
Gee Axle, I guess we aren't going to get you to try to find the similarities instead of the differences are we. I didn't even talk about moslems. I was talking about Christians.Yet you jump on the opportunity to spew hate...sad axle sad. Christian crusades 12th 13th and 14th centuries. Spanish inqusitions et al. Sorry I'm my personal spiritual principals will not allow me to join you in your crusade to hate.
I'm not going to try to find the similarities either, as they are complicated and many of them run deep, involving history, philosophy, different religious sects, etc.; not to mention also, that politics and religious tendencies these days tend to blend WAY ttooo much.
However, I will send you to this:
Facing Down "Just Us" Sunday and the Radical Right
The main problem with society today is too much tolerance and desensitatization influenced partly by the media and partly by political figures who try to make y9u feel bad for putting serial killers to death while they end the lives of thousands of unborn children on the premise of "saving the mother", who in most cases ends up suffering far more because of the guilt over murdering her own child.
I heard a news story the other day about a man on death row who's last wish was to donate his liver to his dying mother and they told him that they couldn't do that because it would KILL HIM. I think the real truth is that they would have to pay for the surgery and wouldn't be able to put the liver up for sale and make someone stay on a waiting list for 3 years so they could jack up the price.
Then we have Terri Schiavo...whose death was so senseless. We might all be subjected to being forced to either ask to not be revived or being put to death against our will if we should ever find ourselves in that situation.
So much for the "land of the free". huh?
Rebecca Beasley
Average Joe is horrified that Bewitching Wizard and I said that Jesus was/is a Liberal. I said I would find some quotes that would prove my point and this seems like a good place to do it.
Conservatives claim that all Liberals are Socialists. In the first place, these people don't understand the difference between socialism and totalitarian communism. (Sweden is a Democratic Socialist country-under Stalin, etc. the U.S.S.R. was a totalitarian communist dictatorship.) Few Liberals are socialists (despite their desire to have a safety net for the poor, disabled, and elderly), but that doesn't mean we like ruthless capitalism (think J.R. Ewing) and the majority of the wealth being in the hands of .01% of the population. Unfortunately, many of the conservatives who wear God on their sleeves and who preach to the choir continue to support the guys who want to give everything to the super rich and the mega-corporations. You know-the ones whose motto is "greed is good".
What did Jesus say about greed?
"No one can be a slave of two masters; he will hate one and love the other;he will be loyal to one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money." Matthew 6:24
"It is much harder for a rich person to enter the Kingdom of God than for a camel to go through the eye of a needle."
Proverb 19:22 It is a disgrace to be greedy; poor people are better off than liars."
Hey, well, at least we'll be better off than Dick Cheney who lied us into this war and who is so greedy that the $35 mil. he got when he retired as Halliburton CEO wasn't enough.
Will add some more quotes re: greed from Timothy (New/T) and
Mother Teresa soon.
Jesus also set down the precedent for separation of church and state when he said, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, give to God what is God's." (Sorry, can't remember the exact chapter/verse right at this second.)
Do you realize that strictly religiously, one should consider that when they go into work, they are doing Caesar's work, as it deals with money, and therefore one should focus primarily on their work. Once one leaves work, that's God.
How's that for a liberal Jesus?
Matthew 22:17-21:
"17: Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not?
18: But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites?
19: Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny.
20: And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription?
21: They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.
There's your separation, right there.
More on greed for the folks who support the Bush Administration's policies of backing greedy and ruthless capitalists and giving everything to the rich.
So then, if we have food and clothes, that should be enough for us. But those who want to get rich fall into temptation and are caught in the trap of many foolish and harmful desires, which pull them down to ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a source of all evil... 1 Timothy
More quotes on why greed isn't Christian.
"When one comes in touch with money, one loses contact with God... One day there springs up the desire for money and for all that money can provide- the superfluous, luxery in eating, luxery in dressing, trifles. Needs increase because one thing calls for another. The result is uncontrollable dissatisfaction."
"I think the person who is attached to riches who lives with the worry of riches, is actually very poor. If this person puts his money at the service of others, then he is very very rich."
These are the words of
Mother Teresa, who even the Bushies would have to admit, is a great example of what a Christian should be. Like St. Francis, she cared more for helping the poor than for gaining power in the Church and living the good life. I devoutly hope she will be canonized someday and that it won't take hundreds of years to do it.
Contrast Mother Teresa who spent her life living among the poor and helping them with Bush who wears God on his sleeve and who many evangelicals think has a direct line to God. Bush believes in ruthless capitalism, his ethics are horrible, and he believes he and his good buddies are entitled to have it all, while he cuts social programs for the poor, disabled, and veterans and mucks around with Social Security and Medicare.
Who is the REAL Christian here? Mother Teresa or Bush?
More on greed for the folks who support so-called Christian politicians who love ruthless capitalists (some of which are "...For what are your possessions but things you keep and guard for fear you may need them tomorrow?
And tomorrow, what shall tomorrow bring to the overprudent dog burying bones in the trackless sand as he follows the pilgrims to the holy city?
And what is fear of need but need itself?
Is not dread of thirst when your well is full, the thirst that is unquenchable?..."
Kahil Gibran-"The Prophet"
Gosh, I guess that Dick Cheney, etc. must be dying of thirst-right, cuz no amount of money seems to be enough for the corporate warmongers who got us into the Iraq War. Still think they're morally righteous men?
More on greed and materialism-
"It is a True Maxime in Divinity, there is nothing that can suffice the heart of man, but onely God's grace; where shall you finde the man that saith truly and from his heart he hath enough: When he hath a house he saith, O that I had a little land to it: And when he hath that: He saith, O that I had a Lordship to it, and when he hath that, he saith, O that I had the Mannor that is next to it, or this Office, or that Honor, or one thing or other more; and still as the world growes upon him, his desires grow upon the world, his enough changeth alwaies, every yeare, nay every day, nay every houre he thinks upon another enough, but let a man have grace enough, and he hath all things enough, for Gods grace is alsufficient.
This sufficient grace makes a penny seem to be as big as a shilling, a cottage seem to be as faire as a Pallace, a prison seeme to be as large as a Country, want seeme to be abundance, and nothing to bee all things: This sufficient grace makes us rich in poverty, patient in adversity, strong in weakness, merry in affliction, and hopefull in despaire.
William Pierce
Note the spelling and consider how some things never seem to change. How unfortunate that Bush and Cheney aren't full of grace instead of themselves. How much better off our nation and the world would be.
More on why Jesus is a Liberal. Conservatives can't seem to understand why Liberals are in favor of peace and think war should be a last resort. They seem to think peace is unamerican and unchristian, too. How can it be unchristian when Jesus has been called "The Prince of Peace"? If Jesus favors peace over war, He must be a Liberal. What does Mother Teresa have to say about peace?--
"Being God, Jesus became like us in every way except sin. And He proclaimed clearly that He had come to bring good news. That good news was God's peace to all men of good will. That peace is something which is fundamental to the satisfaction of our most basic desires. It is a peace of the heart."
Now, it is clear that God/dess wants us to live in peace, but because we have free will we can choose to live in peace or in war. If we accept the teachings of Christ, live by them, love our neighbors, and have peace of the heart we will not want to fight with others or hurt them. If EVERYBODY did that we would have no wars. If we stopped having wars and started concentrating on making life better for everyone in the world, God/dess would be happy. We are told to love God/dess, so if we do we should want to make Him/Her happy-right?
So how can be being a Liberal who loves peace over war be a bad thing?
More on peace-
"...Let us go up the hill of the Lord, to the Temple of Israel's God. He will teach us what He wants us to do;We will walk the paths He has chosen. For the Lord's teaching comes from Jerusalem; from Zion He speaks to His people. He will settle disputes among great nations. They will hammer their swords into plows and their spears into pruning knives. Nations will never again go to war, Never prepare for battle again..." Isaiah 2;3-4
Sounds like God likes peace better than war-doesn't it? Why don't the Bushies who support corporate warmongers?
More on peace (from DemoCat)--
"Happy are those who work for peace: God will call them His children." Matthew 5:9
"Do not think I have come to bring peace to the world. No, I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."
Matthew 10:3,4
These two sound pretty contradictaory. On the one hand, the first obviously shows that God wants us to work for peace. Did Jesus mean by the second that He doesn't mean for the world to be at peace? I don't think he meant that at all. My understanding is that the reason for Lucifer's rebellion against God is that he didn't want people to be given free will and after he was cast out of Heaven he and his followers proceeded to tempt us down the wrong path. Because we have FREE will we can choose to follow the teachings of Jesus or any of the other great teachers/prophets God has sent to us. Jesus didn't come to bring peace to us in terms of forcing the world to be at peace, but to teach us a better way to live/think. Because some people will choose to follow His teachings and others won't there will be conflict until He comes at last at the end of days. Does this mean Jesus loves war and hates peace? No. He wants us to follow His path and His path would lead to peace if EVERYONE followed it. If Jesus loves peace and that's being a Liberal than, hey, Jesus must be a Liberal-right?
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