Tuesday, July 12, 2005

More Misinformation

I'm really stunned at the latest wild ass spin on the Rove thing. Standard talking point. Trying to keep him from writing a story that wasn't true. Here is the story Joe Wilson wrote.

It did not take long to conclude that it was highly doubtful that any such transaction had ever taken place.
Given the structure of the consortiums that operated the mines, it would be exceedingly difficult for Niger to transfer uranium to Iraq. Niger's uranium business consists of two mines, Somair and Cominak, which are run by French, Spanish, Japanese, German and Nigerian interests. If the government wanted to remove uranium from a mine, it would have to notify the consortium, which in turn is strictly monitored by the International Atomic Energy Agency. Moreover, because the two mines are closely regulated, quasi-governmental entities, selling uranium would require the approval of the minister of mines, the prime minister and probably the president. In short, there's simply too much oversight over too small an industry for a sale to have transpired.
(As for the actual memorandum, I never saw it. But news accounts have pointed out that the documents had glaring errors Âs they were signed, for example, by officials who were no longer in government and were probably forged. And then there's the fact that Niger formally denied the charges.)

Right-O didn't happen/phony documents.

If my information was deemed inaccurate, I understand (though I would be very interested to know why). If, however, the information was ignored because it did not fit certain preconceptions about Iraq, then a legitimate argument can be made that we went to war under false pretenses. (It's worth remembering that in his March "Meet the Press" appearance, Mr. Cheney said that Saddam Hussein was "trying once again to produce nuclear weapons.") At a minimum, Congress, which authorized the use of military force at the president's behest, should want to know if the assertions about Iraq were warranted.

Yep, they were making stuff up.

Here's something from the Washington Times. Not exactly your bastion of liberalism.

One official said that the documents were provided first to the Italians and then to journalists before they ended up in the hands of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), which dismissed them as fakes.

Fake documents, really bad fake documents, didn't happen. Sounds like more than the essence of Mr. Wilsons findings were correct.

Other intelligence obtained by Britain is considered reliable and indicates Niger had tried to sell uranium ore to Saddam Hussein's government, said officials familiar with U.S. intelligence reports.

Notice it said "tried". Saddam didn't bite. Too bad so many gullible Americans did.

I know the heart of their "incorrect" story is the CIA didn'tnt send him his wife did. Vice President didn't request the information blah blah. They are trying to make it sound like what Wilson claimed about the overriding issue wasn't true. That would be incorrect sir.


Anonymous Anonymous said...

So much for the First Amendment-right? "Big Brother"'s henchman (Rove) strikes again. Well, duh? They just couldn't allow freedom of the press if the press is telling the TRUTH and not bleating on and on to the "sheep" about non-existent WMDs and Iraqi connections to Al Qaeda, or focusing on the girl missing in Aruba, or telling lies about John Kerry.
Speaking of Kerry, he stood up in the Senate and said that Karl Rove should be fired. It probably won't do any good, but since he had a petition signed by many many Americans it will at least show our spineless GOP Senators and Representatives that the American people want them to stand up to the Bush Administration and to say "We've had enough!" To sign Kerry's petition:
Also, gotta wonder about the wisdom of "outing" trained CIA agents who are working undercover and putting them and their families in danger, esp. with our plans to fight terrorism, just to punish them for the truth coming out. Seems to me like PNAC must hate the Constitution/First Amendment, and that's why the Right is attacking moveon.org, too. They hate the grassroots organizations that are raising the political consiousness of Americans, giving them accurate information, and providing easy ways for busy Americans to be politically active in their own homes through Internet petitions/letters, parties, etc.

4:38 PM, July 13, 2005  
Blogger The Donkey said...

On the radio this morning, I heard about Kerry being a traitor. It shows how much the caller values soldiers and medals of valor. David Hackworth was also a man of honor, He was awarded the Distinguished Service Cross, twice, along with 10 Silver Stars, eight Bronze Stars and eight Purple Hearts. He opposed Bush on the Iraq war. In many people's eyes any one who opposes Bush is a traitor.

What value does a silver star have to the American people? I saw the Republicans draw purple hearts on band-aids and mock the medal at their last convention. I know how little a purple heart means to them.

To people like Rodney , being a good soldier is not enough. You also have to blindly follow Bush. The military has fought for free speech. Free speech does not mean free to say what Bush tells you to say.

I agree there are Americans that are traitors. There is a traitor in the White House. The traitor betrayed a loyal American CIA agent and damaged this country's ability to gather information on WMD. Why are so few people wanting this traitor to not be found. Why are so many acting like the traitor did nothing wrong? Traitors should be punished.

8:51 PM, July 14, 2005  
Blogger Average Joe said...

John Kerry's petition!!! What is wrong with you liberals? Tell me the crime that Karl Rove is being charged with. Read the law that the dems are unofficially charging him with. No law was broken!

Did you bother reading about Valerie Plame and her "undercover" career? She has the same job today that she did in May of '03 when the story broke, that's pretty undercover I guess. She was moved to that job after her name was exposed to the Russians by Aldrich Ames in 1994. Then when the story broke she proceeded to do a Vanity Fair pictorial and interview and her husband published a book! Talk about keeping out of the limelight. This is absolutely ridiculous. Here is a great excerpt from Joe Wilson's book review:

“For Example, When Asked How He ‘Knew’ That The Intelligence Community Had Rejected The Possibility Of A Niger-Iraq Uranium Deal, As He Wrote In His Book, He Told [Senate Intelligence] Committee Staff That His Assertion May Have Involved ‘A Little Literary Flair.’” (Matthew Continetti, “‘A Little Literary Flair,’” The Weekly Standard, 7/26/04)

Stand behind your liars who make stories to make cash. That is the liberal way!


9:59 PM, July 14, 2005  
Blogger Average Joe said...

Reporting the comments of journalists is no quest for the truth. Let's test the former ambassadors claims against a full senat committee's report.

If you have any sense of partisan politics and what it actually takes to be non-partisan then you will agree with my next statement:

The Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, “Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community’s Prewar Assessments On Iraq,” is the definitive non-partisan view of the events leading up to the war in Iraq.

I will make one attempt to convince you, but if you do not believe me after that I respect your decision to stop breathing:

The Committee Members: Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D-WV), Sen. Carl Levin (D-MI), Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-CA), Sen. Ron Wyden (D-OR), Sen. Richard Durbin (D-IL), Sen. Evan Bayh (D-IN), Sen. John Edwards (D-NC), Sen. Barbara Mikulski (D-MD), Sen. Pat Roberts (R-KS), Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-UT), Sen. Mike DeWine (R-OH), Sen. Christopher Bond (R-MO), Sen. Trent Lott (R-MS), Sen. Olympia Snowe (R-ME), Sen. Chuck Hagel (R-NE), Sen. Saxby Chambliss (R-GA), Sen. John Warner (R-VA).

My seemingly limitless disgust with Joe Wilson stems from his non-stop contradictory comments. Each comment means to absolve him of guilt while attacking the Bush Administration. He is a filthy liar and opportunist using the exposure of his wife’s name to push a divisive agenda that will fill his pockets. The following are quotes from Wilson refuted by the excellent Senate report referenced above:

Wilson: “…believed that [his report] would have been distributed to the White House and that the Vice President received a direct response to his question about the possible uranium deal.” (Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, “Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community’s Prewar Assessments On Iraq,” 7/7/04)

The Truth: The Senate Select Committee On Intelligence Reported That The Vice President Was Not Briefed On Wilson’s Report. “Conclusion 14. The Central Intelligence Agency should have told the Vice President and other senior policymakers that it had sent someone to Niger to look into the alleged Iraq-Niger uranium deal and it should have briefed the Vice President on the former ambassador’s findings.” (Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, “Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community’s Prewar Assessments On Iraq,” 7/7/04)

Wilson: In June of 2003, Wilson told The Washington Post “The Niger intelligence was based on documents that had clearly been forged because ‘the dates were wrong and the names were wrong.’” (Susan Schmidt, “Plame’s Input Is Cited On Niger Mission,” The Washington Post, 7/10/04)

The Truth: Senate Select Committee On Intelligence Unanimous Report: “The former Ambassador said that he may have ‘misspoken’ to the reporter when he said he concluded the documents were ‘forged.’” (Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, “Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community’s Prewar Assessments On Iraq,” 7/7/04)

Wilson: Claims his trip proved there was nothing to the uranium “allegations.” “I knew that [Dr. Rice] had fundamentally misstated the facts. In fact, she had lied about it. I had gone out and I had undertaken this study. I had come back and said that this was not feasible. … This government knew that there was nothing to these allegations.” (NBC’s, “Meet The Press,” 5/2/04)

The Truth: Senate Select Committee on Intelligence unanimous report: “Conclusion 13. The report on the former ambassador’s trip to Niger, disseminated in March 2002, did not change any analysts’ assessments of the Iraq-Niger uranium deal.” (Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, “Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community’s Prewar Assessments On Iraq,” 7/7/04)

“For most analysts, the information in the report lent more credibility to the original Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) report on the uranium deal, but State Department Bureau of Intelligence and research (INR) analysts believed that the report supported their assessments that Niger was unlikely to be willing or able to sell uranium.” (Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, “Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community’s Prewar Assessments On Iraq,” 7/7/04)

Wilson: Claimed his wife did not suggest he travel to Niger to investigate reports of uranium deal; instead, Wilson claims it came out of meeting with CIA. CNN’s Wolf Blitzer: “Among other things, you had always said, always maintained, still maintain your wife, Valerie Plame, a CIA officer, had nothing to do with the decision to send to you Niger to inspect reports that uranium might be sold from Niger to Iraq. … Did Valerie Plame, your wife, come up with the idea to send you to Niger?” Joe Wilson: “No. My wife served as a conduit, as I put in my book. When her supervisors asked her to contact me for the purposes of coming into the CIA to discuss all the issues surrounding this allegation of Niger selling uranium to Iraq.” (CNN’s “Late Edition,” 7/18/04)

The Truth: The Senate Select Committee on Intelligence received not only testimony but actual documentation indicating Wilson’s wife proposed him for the trip. “Some CPD, [CIA Counterproliferation Division] officials could not recall how the office decided to contact the former ambassador, however, interviews and documents provided to the Committee indicate that his wife, a CPD employee, suggested his name for the trip. The CPD reports officer told Committee staff that the former ambassador’s wife ‘offered up his name’ and a memorandum to the Deputy Chief of the CPD on February 12, 2002, from the former ambassador’s wife says, ‘my husband has good relations with both the PM [prime minister] and the former Minister of Mines (not to mention lots of French contacts), both of whom could possibly shed light on this sort of activity.’” (Select Committee On Intelligence, “Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community’s Prewar Intelligence Assessments On Iraq,” U.S. Senate, 7/7/04)

10:02 PM, July 14, 2005  
Blogger Ron said...

Truth: This is not about Joe Wilson. It's about Karl Rove, and maybe others in the White house so cut your red herring right there.

Truth: There was no yellow cake. Joe was right.What a bliovator you are nonaverage. Write a lot and say so little that is relevant. Hope you enjoyed it!!!!

12:56 AM, July 15, 2005  
Blogger Ron said...

Do you have some early shots for Mr. Fitzgerald yet or are you saving those for later. We all know anyone who might challenge the administration must be smeared. You guys have a perfect record. I'm just waiting for your wrath to turn to Mr. Fitzgerald. One can see it comin from a mile away.

1:00 AM, July 15, 2005  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The DemoCat agrees with The Donkey and Ron and feels that "Average Joe" should choose another identity because his far right views do not reflect those of AVERAGE Americans whose views fall somewhere along the spectrum between the far left and the far right which is pretty close to what we've got in The White House right now. Y'all condemn Liberals for being "Socialists" (not the same thing as totalitarian Stalinistic Communists). Well, Hitler who was a Nazi and a capitalist and Mussolini who was a fascist were on the far right. Totalitarianism is totalitarianism whether it's on the left or the right.
Rove needs to go anyway. He's the strategist responsible for most of the lies, distortions of truth, slander against the right's opponents, etc. He had a lot to do with why Cheney/Bush are in office and why we are painted into a corner in Iraq, our Administration is hated and despised around the world, our economy is in trouble, Social Security is endangered, our enviromnental and civil rights laws are being turned backwards because the ultra conservatives are REACTIONARIES NOT IN FAVOR OF PROGRESS (Liberal means progressive), and the pharmaceutical industries are allowed to raise their prices sky high. Maybe Average Joe would like to explain to me why my mom's cancer drugs cost $600 a shot. Surely, it didn't cost the drug companies more than a little to manufacture them.
I think The Donkey is right. I think the neo-cons have betrayed this country for corporate profits and power. In my opinion, they are ALL traitors.
John Kerry is a HERO who is an idealist and believed what JFK said about asking himself what he could do for his country instead of what his country could do for him. He didn't believe in that war, but he volunteered for both the Navy and service in Vietnam when he could've used his family connections to get out of it. He was serving on board the U.S.S. Gridley when he got the news that his best friend from High School, Richard Pershing, had been killed in the Tet Offensive. He volunteered to go to Vietnam after that and serving on the swift boats was very dangerous with a very high casualty rate. Everyone who served in Vietnam got medals. Anyone who was wounded was eligible for a purple heart regardless of the severity of his/her wounds, and if he/she didn't put in a request for one, that's not Kerry's fault. His crewmates praised his valour and he deserved his stars. If he wanted to throw back ribbons or medals-so what? They were his to throw and it was a symbolic gesture against the WAR not the troops/country. Kerry was right to protest the war which we couldn't win and which cost 58,000 American lives and about 1.5 million Vietnamese lives.
Rodney was never in Vietnam. Everything he thinks he knows about John Kerry was put out by Nixon for revenge, by the GOP to destroy his political career, or by G.I.s who wanted a scapegoat to blame because they weren't treated like heroes when they came home from 'Nam. Both Average Joe and Rodney need to read Douglas Brinkley's bio of Kerry-"Tour of Duty..." and the Winter Soldier Investigation testimony on-line before they say anything about Kerry again!

5:13 PM, July 15, 2005  
Blogger Dedanna said...

You can do something about this. There are many more out there like this one:

President Bush: Fire Karl Rove

When it first came to light that someone in the White House had leaked the identity of Valerie Plame, a CIA operative working to stop the spread of weapons of mass destruction, President Bush vowed that he
would find -- and fire -- the responsible parties. Now, Karl Rove's lawyers have admitted that he revealed Plame's identity to at least one journalist before the first stories were published. It's time for the President to hold Rove accountable and fire him.

(Hell, it's time for the President to hold himself accountable for much, much more than just this; however include this. --d.)

Click here to tell the President that Rove should be fired.

Rove's political retribution against Plame didn't stop there; he also launched a coordinated campaign to smear both her and her husband, Ambassador Joseph Wilson. Ambassador Wilson, you'll recall, was the one who publicly disproved the President's infamous claim that Saddam Hussein was trying to buy uranium from Africa.

Click here to tell the President to fire Karl Rove.

From Act for Change Activism.

7:11 PM, July 15, 2005  
Blogger Average Joe said...

Don't talk to me about bloviating with your "blood in the water" politics. Joe Wilson inserted himself in the center of this debate by calling for Rove's job, and if you had read the post this comment is attached to you'd realize it's about Joe Wilson and the credibility of his story just as my comments were.

Without backpedalling to accusations of Rove being a fascist strategist perhaps someone might try to enter an actual debate and answer the question of which law Rove broke. Typically I find when talking of legal matters it helps to have the support of a law. I also find when firing someone it helps to have just cause. Perhaps doing what is just isn't as important as getting rid of a republican strategist? In that case I refer back to my "blood in the water" comment.

11:14 PM, July 15, 2005  
Blogger The Donkey said...

The Donkey wonders why average joes blog has so few readers. Why would average joe care what people in a small Roswell blog think? I know the radio signal does not go to Arizona. Average Joe is not Joe Artesia, the Donkey would like to introduce the two and they could talk amoung themselves and quit annoying other people.

The Donkey can read the Republican talking points off the web and does not need average joe repeating them as his ideas. The Donkey will warn Average joe that the Donkey does not like cut and paste posts without the proper credit given to the true writer.

If the Donkey uses Bush's words like" George W. Bush insists, "If there's a leak out of my administration, I want to know who it is...If the person has violated law, that person will be taken care of. I welcome the investigation. I am absolutely confident the Justice Department will do a good job. I want to know the truth...Leaks of classified information are bad things.--11 February 2004, The Donkey will give proper credit to the source.

There are traitors in the White House. Bush has said he wants the traitors found. Why does Average Joe love traitors?

12:22 AM, July 16, 2005  
Blogger Average Joe said...

This blog has an archive chock full of months of material, mine has been up for 4 days. I wonder why I have so few readers by comparison... I also wonder why a blog in existence for so long has so few consistent commentators? Perhaps it doesn't represent average Americans?

I put at the top of every article where I got it from and the direct link to the article. I don't find your comments to be totally baseless however, I will be adding the author and the entity they write for. My comments, which are not copied and pasted, start right after the "Why Should You Care" header which I imagine is the exact place you stopped reading.

If it is proven that Karl Rove broke the law he should be fired and deported like a traitor would be. I will not resort to baseless accusations such as "there are traitors in the White House". Even the DNC isn't that bold. I prefer to have faith in the votes of the American people and the judicial system organized by our founders.

Do you ever realize that by criticizing the institution you call to the carpet millions upon millions of Americans? I prefer to focus on individuals and events rather than assume half of this country is dumb.

3:58 PM, July 16, 2005  
Blogger Ron said...

Joe: you are right. Most of my post is about Joe Wilson. It's to counter Republican talking points like yours that I look for to preempt. You are right. I played your little game of misdirection. The truth remains that the case is about a leaker in the White House. I haven't said it's Rove. I actually think it is a much bigger story about silencing whistle blowers and a grand coverup of shaky reasoning for a war in Iraq. As far as the"Senate Select Committe on Intelligence." I bet I could find just as many things in that report that would bolster my side. See Joe, politics is really about common sense its getting down to the greater good. It's not about writing your side of the story that others have said and the other side doing the same. That can be done with any issue and you know it. Paul O neill, Clarke, Wilson, Lawrence Lindsey, Generals against the war. Don't we all know through the "liberal" media that everyone who challenges an administration decision is immediately of questionable repute. Does't that set off your common sense smell meter? Apparently not cuz you are still falling for it hook line and sinker.

7:24 PM, July 16, 2005  
Blogger Dedanna said...

Actually, my own post had absolutely nothing to do with avgjoe (whom I generally tend to ignore), or his posts at all -- it's just that my post fell next in line from avgjoe's.

When I see a post titled "More Misinformation" that starts out from the top, with:

I'm really stunned at the latest wild ass spin on the Rove thing, that is what I'm going to respond to. In particular, when the original poster has had so many other original posts on the subject of, yet again, Karl Rove.

Now, don't want to make this about Rove?

Don't mention his sorry arse.

10:40 PM, July 16, 2005  
Blogger Dedanna said...


Q: No, you’re not finishing. You’re not saying anything. You stood at that podium and said that Karl Rove was not involved. And now we find out that he spoke about Joseph Wilson’s wife. So don’t you owe the American public a fuller explanation. Was he involved or was he not? Because contrary to what you told the American people, he did indeed talk about his wife, didn’t he?


The brutalizing of Scott McClellan at the White House podium on Monday is a development with long roots. They stretch well beyond the particulars of what McClellan earlier said about Karl Rove and the use of Valerie Plame to discredit Joseph Wilson.

Click above for more...

10:56 PM, July 16, 2005  
Blogger Dedanna said...

FYI avgjoe:

perhaps someone might try to enter an actual debate and answer the question of which law Rove broke. Typically I find when talking of legal matters it helps to have the support of a law.

You got it!

A 1982 statute makes it a crime for people with authorized access to classified information to knowingly identify covert agents. If officials learned the information solely from reporters rather than from confidential files, they probably did not violate the law. Even if they came to know the information in both ways, the fact that it was in public circulation would suggest that it was not particularly secret.

But the 1982 law is only one source of potential legal exposure. The special prosecutor in the case, Patrick J. Fitzgerald, may also be expected to compare the officials' accounts of how they heard about Ms. Wilson, who was referred to in early news reports by her maiden name, Valerie Plame, with other accounts and documents.

More in Questions of Who Told What to Whom, and When, May Be Crucial in Leak Case

11:13 PM, July 16, 2005  
Blogger Ron said...

Dedanna: The wild ass spin I was refering to is the movement of the accused to joe wilson from Karl Rove. Somebody in the White House is guilty. Of that I have little doubt. Of who it is? Too many crooks to find just one.

11:57 PM, July 16, 2005  
Blogger The Donkey said...

The Donkey will say it again, there are traitors in the White House. Valarie Wilson was betrayed by some people in the White House. Traitors should serve jail time. As Bush has said, Leaks are bad things.

The Donkey does not know why average joe even cares what is happening on a small Roswell blog. The Donkey was refering to Joe's comments, on this blog, which were identical to the trash the RNC is spewing. Why is joe soft on traitors?

12:51 AM, July 17, 2005  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The DemoCat thinks 'Average Joe" is soft on traitors because the folks he helped put in the White House and their good buddies are "traitors", and like them, he doesn't want to admit he made a mistake. Too bad those of us who recognize the truth about what is happening to our constitutional rights, etc. have to suffer right along with these right-wing yahoos who are living in denial. I guess, they think they're safe because they support the "traitors". Maybe the latter will get us first, but then who will be left to speak up for the rights of the yahoos when we're gone?

4:51 PM, July 18, 2005  
Blogger Average Joe said...

One at a time...

Dedanna - Just as Bill Clinton requested word definitions that made me giggle I will need to request a definition of covert agent. According the woman who wrote the law a covert agent must be engaged in overseas duty (Plame hadn't been overseas in 9 years).

Anonymous - Yes, yes, yes. I, the conservative voter, filled the government with terrorists. Blah, blah, blah. For fun, I ask you to name one law or congressional action that has affected your daily routine in the last 4 years (ie. get up, go to work, and come home).

I also request that you tell me how any democrat has improved our "horrible" situation. All I have heard is: "Bush is an idiot", "Republicans want to kill my children", etc. etc. Face it, the DNC is chasing air time and headlines rather than proposing solutions.

the donkey - you are a jack ass (sorry, I could not resist). I love posting here, it is like honing my skills on the field of battle. Of course it requires talented combatants, but I leave that to your interpretation.

ron - It is with great sadness that I admit that anything can be spun in any way. It saddens me because while I venture to use sources to spin my web my democratic counter parts result to sweeping generalizations and wild accusations. I don't run for Republican talking points from any random source that supports my ideas. When I wanted information about Wilson I turned to a bi-partisan senate committee report. When I wanted information about the 1982 intelligence bill I turned to the woman who wrote it, but I guess it is all just spin. Let's read the article excerpt you provided from a liberal commentator. If there are degrees of separation from spin I say we aim for as close to the source as possible and pretend it could actually be factual.

4:28 PM, July 23, 2005  
Blogger The Donkey said...

Calling the Donkey a jack ass or any thing else does not change the facts that traitors are operating in the White House.

8:00 PM, July 23, 2005  
Blogger Ron said...

Joe, my point is that The senate intelligence committee said lots of things. There are lots of "facts" out there. Now can you use ALL of them to form some kind of logical take on good and evil. Right and wrong. Or are you finding and believing because to do otherwise would make you an iccky liberal.Can you apply your standards to others and understand how others might react? Do you understand tolerence is the key to living in harmony and live as we all so choose. You know FREEDOM.

8:09 PM, July 23, 2005  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To Average Joe:
Well, I guess, I'd have to say that since you and your fellow Bushies saw fit to put these guys in office, I have become a lot more politically active and vocal, which has affected my daily routine somewhat and is a GOOD thing, actually.
You still haven't answered my question about why it's OK that my mom who has cancer is paying $600 a shot to build up her white blood cell count when it probably costs a tiny fraction of that to manufacture and market the stuff. Worrying about my mom-boy that would affect my daily routine. I guess, that with the bankruptcy laws changed, exhorbitant drug prices, etc. sick/old people will not be able to afford medical care which will mean there will be less senior citizens collecting social security as they will have to choose death. Wow, is that PNAC's answer to the Soc. Security problem?
I also have a 25 yr. old son, my pride and joy, who I do not want drafted and sent to Iraq, Iran, Syria, etc. to be killed or maimed so Dick Cheney and his good buddies can get even richer when they are already obscenely wealthy. This is just a chess game where they try to see how much wealth and power they can gain, and the American people, troops, and poor people are just pawns to be used and discarded. I believe Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rove, Ken Lay, etc. are evil people and that you should rename yourself because the "average joe" is waking up and tearing the stickers off his/her car. Look at how many you see nowadays, even here in Bush Country.
As for Dems, it's not like they aren't trying to do things, but when the GOP is in the majority and falls down for whatever Bush wants like a line of dominoes, they're (Dems) not going to accomplish much. Instead of whining about how terrible Democrats and Liberals are, why don't you help bring your party back to its traditional GOP
policies instead of what I consider to be the Ameri-fascism of PNAC?

8:29 PM, July 25, 2005  
Blogger Axle said...

I dont know what it is about. If Rove messed up bad enough- I say Fire Him ! Fire em all ! But they say his wife was a CIA agent. I doubt it, if she was real there wouldnt be a story ! I will bet U anything she was hired under affirmative action, which means she doesnt have to be qualified for anything ! Thats probably why its no big deal, what does does she know, wheres the jeopardy to the country, probably is none. Speaking of John Kerry and being a middle of the road person, I never heard him say anything that moved my needle one point. Hes like Hillary, they just dont have anything to say. ramble and rhetoric, r&r, r&r, lets see how long it is before someone on the left decides to use my argument against the right. - I dont fall for that crap. And speaking of WMD, lets seeeeee, well Russia had over 900 war heads go missing after the cold war, generally assumed sold on the black market to their buddies in the middle east. Should we have taken a risk and said there is no way those lovers of death will not drop one on Jerusalem ! hah ! Better safe than sorry !

5:13 PM, July 26, 2005  
Blogger Ron said...

Axle: your percieved implications of the Plame affair are quite narrow not not anywhere near as thoughtful as the person I have come to know. I think you oughta join the military..they are raising the age to 42..are you under that. You seem to relish war.

7:10 PM, July 26, 2005  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To Axle from DemoCat:
You are NOT a middle of the road person as far as I can see, except that the GOP is now so far right that a traditional conservative or libertarian is now in the middle.
I can sum up the difference between John Kerry and G. W. Bush very simply. Kerry is like a rare gem and Bush is like junk jewelry-all flash and glitter and no substance. Go rent "To Kill a Mockingbird" and watch it.
John Kerry is like "Atticus Finch" in that movie/book. He has integrity, honor, and compassion, as well as high intelligence and a phenomenal ability to communicate unlike our "President" whose foot is in his mouth more often than it's out. I want a bright articulate caring leader who will be respected at home by all or most Americans and around the world not an inarticulate "semi-educated" J.R. Ewing wannabe whose biggest accomplishment at Yale was being elected president of his fraternity. Kerry was President of the Political Union, a prize winning orator, a debator, etc. He prepared himself to be President while Bush settled for being president of "Animal House". I suggest you read Douglas Brinkley's bio of John Kerry and if that doesn't move your needle, than I feel sorry for you because it must be permanently stuck.

5:15 PM, July 27, 2005  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Say, here's a thought. Maybe Average Joe, The Game, and Axle are all really the same person because they all sound like it. 'Course maybe that's because they can't write anything that isn't a far right talking point. Do you guys have opinions/facts of your own or is parroting the opinions/"facts" of Rush Limbaugh, etc. to those who have other sources of information the best you can do. Limbaugh has made millions of dollars catering to the angry white male who needs a scapegoat to blame for his problems. God forbid he would blame the mega-corporations and the politicians who are in thrall to them, much less our "liberal media" which is too busy focusing on the Michael Jackson trial to report the real news. Wake up guys! Rush Limbaugh is laughing all the way to the bank and you can bet he's enjoying his huge tax breaks thanks to the corporate catering GOP, too. He sure wouldn't tell the truth about what Karl Rove would or wouldn't do. Al Franken may call him "a Big Fat Idiot", but he's not stupid, he's just a jerk.--The DemoCat

5:20 PM, July 28, 2005  

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