Coffee Table
We are all in the same boat in a stormy sea, and we owe each other a terrible loyalty. ~G. K. Chesterton
posted by Ron at 11:55 PM
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The only thing we have to fear is fear its self. Nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror
Monday, October 17, 2005
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About Me
- Name: Ron
- Location: Roswell, New Mexico, United States
A radio broadcast veteran, a father of 2, a son, a brother,a friend and a child of God.
57 Comments:
Game, No experiment goes without learning something if you are looking for an education. I don't need to be a college gradagate to know that! :-) We saw how long people can keep on track. Not very long. We saw how much people felt they needed a long explaination to what they thought. There was no A or B. It was A or B because of this and this and this. Me thinks we have all made it far to complicated.
OK, RON!! Re: your comment on this on the show today-if a conservative Republican (The Game) and a liberal Democrat (me) can have a discussion about sex ed and standardized testing and find common ground the experiment was not a total failure. The Game and I did try. Give BOTH of us a little credit for that.
Also, news is that Harriet Meirs filled out some kind of questionaire years ago and said that she believes that abortion should only be done to save the life of the mother.
This can be another topic for Game and me to debate, if he likes. (reminder-I am Pro-Choice but NOT Pro-Abortion)
Also, Ron- you did not tell me which stations and when you DJ. I don't want to listen to Dennis the Menace or Michael "Red"ved, but I might listen to you if you do oldies or soft rock on some other station or even KPSA. What is the website address for the station and is it even updated now?
Democat, what is the difference between pro-choice and pro-abortion?
I'll start it off by saying that the law should be that abortion is only legal if the health of the mother is at stake. (and with our advances in medicine that is really never the case). I believe that the woman made the choice when she had sex, that is what I teach my students about sex....if you have sex you have to be ready to raise a baby.
I know the rape issue comes up...and I have to say I am a bit torn on this...but then I will always error on the side of saving a babies life.
I can talk for hours about the sex ed thing, just bring up a question or comment....
Democat..kudos. I think even if we ultimately disagree it's better to understand why besides you guys suck. I do KMOU in the morning. I voice track KSFX at night. The website isnt really.
When it comes to abortion. With all the profound implications of both options and the number of lives it will effect I would never pretend to tell anyone yes or no. It is a seriously personal matter in my opinion.
To the Game:
You swine. You vulgar little maggot. You worthless bag of filth. As is said in Texas, you couldn't pour water out of a boot with instructions printed on the heel.
To the rest of the group, don't worry, the game said he would not read the posts of the Donkey.
The Donkey knows abortion in most cases, is murder. The donkey also knows it would be impossible to stop all abortions. If abortion became illegal in the USA, people would travel to Canada and Mexico to kill the babies inside of them. Guards would have to be posted in the borders to stop all woman from leaving the country until they can prove they are not carrying a child or post a bond to ensure they come back with a kid. The internet would have to be monitored to ensure women are not getting information to abort or get medications to abort. How else could the abortions be stopped?
Game,
I guess, the difference is that I am Pro-Choice because ultimately I don't feel I have the right to make that decision for someone else, but I don't like abortion and don't feel it should be taken lightly or abused (used as birth control). I couldn't have ever done it, myself, except under extreme circumstances, and even then I would've suffered extreme guilt. I absolutely think that human life begins at conception, but many of these zygotes pass out without implanting in the womb and miscarriages in the first trimester are not uncommon. It is, also, true that there are 2 lives involved.
The Donkey is right when he says women would go elsewhere to get abortions,if needed. That would mean women who had the money to do so. Poor women would have to throw themselves down stairs, go to back alley butchers, try using twisted clothes hangers, etc. Do you want us to go back to that?
I would like to see the abortion rate reduced, tho. Promotion of contraception, abstinance, and adoption are all good. I'd like to see it discouraged in the 1st trimester unless there are extenuating circumstances (danger to mother's health/life, incest, rape, SEVERE birth defects, AIDS/HIV in mother), restricted in the second (danger to mom, incest, birth defects), and outlawed in the 3rd where the BABY is viable and can be delivered early. Also no partial birth abortions!!
I totally believe that if Mom doesn't want to raise a child, but Dad (or his or her family do) that Dad's wishes should be taken into account, but ultimately it is MOM'S CHOICE.
On a last note, I think that maybe the reason that we are so polarized on the issue is that the extremists are the ones making the most noise. There has been some success at reducing the abortion rate and that is what we should concentrate on rather than reversing Rowe v. Wade.
Also, loved that Seals & Crofts song "Unborn Child" back in the 70s and wanted to hear them sing it in concert, but Pro-Choice protesters made such a fuss they left it out. That's not free speech. Still ticks me off 30 years later!
On Yahoo News-Rice says not denying future plans for maybe invading Syria, etc. (AFTER '06 elections, right? And then we get the draft, too.)
Also, South Korea stepping up the stem cell research. (All the OTHER countries (other than poor 3rd World) will be ahead of the U.S. on EVERYTHING soon!!
Re: show today. Wow! Good thing G. called. I haven't had anything to say on show, but have been listening. Sad for Ron to be reduced to looking to see where his mouse, etc. was made (China)-smile. Also, would think that if the new "Maniac" (I don't wanna be and he CAN'T be replaced!!!) didn't call for a while the local conservatives would suddenly get brave enough to call in. Not happening yet.
Have to wonder how BUSH can get away with criticizing anyone for handling something clumsily. Isn't that the pot calling the kettle black. (He can't even ride his bike without falling off it-ha!)More likely to be Cheney doing this and, yes, I hope the evil one will resign soon, but wish Bush would pick someone decent to be VP-like McCain, maybe. Good column from Helen Thomas recently re: Bush's possible vetoing of the bill not to torture POWs.
Re: winning the lottery. I guess, most people end up getting out of debt FIRST. I'd probably go back to school too, help my mom with her medical bills, college funds for my kids, of course, and buy a house. I'd want to travel, too, esp. in Europe (France-gotta see Paris and the Louvre, Italy, Holland, and Ireland) BEFORE the world ends thanks to the yahoos who are running things.
Here's a question that should make
The Game happy. If all of us who criticize those tax cuts for the rich suddenly became rich would we all have sudden changes of heart?
25% of fertilized eggs abort in the first trimester...this is true.
The coat-hanger, falling down stairs comment is silly. That won't happen. Anyway, that arguement could be made for anything...you probably want heroin addicts to be given free needles. I just don't think they should be given the help in doing something wrong.
Anyone who has a heart would say that partial birth abortion is completely wrong...but then why do the democrats keep blocking for it to be banned? I"m sure we will have an extremist come here and say a woman can stab a kid in the back of the head 3 seconds before it is officially born because it is her choice. I'm glad you agree partial birth abortion is wrong...
With the pro-choice people restricting speech, that what the left does...they say anything that is not thier view is hate speech, and they hold a protest to stop it.
Democat, we agree atleast 90% on this one...I can give some wiggle room in the first trimester, after that it is sick and wrong
Actually I don't mind doing the show like I am and I have noticed that some of the conservatives ARE sticking their toes in the water these days. ..I still would feel the same way about tax cuts. One with that much money can find dozens of ways to avoid taxes. Tax free bonds etc. So no problem here. Besides nobody, including me, needs 340 million.
old "nursery rhyme":
There once were two cats of Kilkenny,
Each thought there was one cat too many;
So they fought and they fit, And they scratched And they bit,
Till excepting their nails And the tips of their tails
Instead of two cats There weren't any.
Hey Lame Game;
The Donkey gets more pleasure from running his nostrils down a cactus, than reading another contribution from you. Maybe you wouldn't read like such a pathetic loser if you didn't have an intellect rivaled only by Bush.
Your recent post was brain-damaged, mind-numbing and demented.I recommend that you consume excrement, get a gun and shoot yourself, get a life or grow up. In conclusion, why don't you go away and play Russian roulette with all chambers fully-loaded?You are so boring that you can't even entertain a doubt.Nobody says that you are dumb. They just say you were sixteen years old before you learned how to wave goodbye!
Remember group, the lame game is not reading my posts.
In a strange twist of fate, The Donkey has injured his hind leg badly. After months of calling the game lame, the donkey is lame. Now the Donkey is in pain and taking mind numbing medication. The lame Game still has no chance of changing the donkey's mind, although some of Bush's statements are begining to make sense.
Margret Sanger wrote this:
Suggestions as to what to do for a girl who was “in trouble” or a married woman who was “caught” passed from mouth to mouth — herb teas, turpentine, steaming, rolling downstairs, inserting slippery elm, knitting needles, shoe-hooks. When they had word of a new remedy they hurried to the drugstore, and if the clerk were inclined to be friendly he might say, “Oh, that won’t help
you, but here’s something that may.” The younger druggists usually refused to give advice because, if it were to be known, they would come under the law; midwives were even more fearful. The doomed women implored me to reveal the “secret” rich people had, offering to pay me extra to tell them; many really believed I was holding back information for money. They asked everybody and tried anything, but nothing did them any good. On Saturday nights I have seen groups of from fifty to one hundred with their shawls over their heads waiting outside the office of a five-dollar abortionist.
Yup, no evidence of coat hangers here.
Ann Coulter and Brent Bozell teamed up once again on Hannity's radio show today to discuss Harriet Miers. Coulter, not too happy with the Bush choice, admitted that the GOP lie to liberals which surprises nobody. After saying "They're treating us like liberals lying to us" she followed with "When they lie to Conservatives, we have a problem."
The donkey has a hard time keeping up all the lies.
Lie, Lie , lie,
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Support the troops
Game, I am glad that we can have a civilized discussion on this issue and Donkey I appreciated reading your information. It may be that women will not resort to such extreme methods now that having children out of wedlock almost seems the norm and there isn't the stigma attached to it that there was years ago.
I don't think rape victims should have to carry through with pregnancies that were forced on them, and have to have that constant reminder of a traumatic experience. I would hope, tho, that they would go to an ER and get the morning after pill immediately.
Incest victims are something else, tho. In too many cases, they are very young girls (11-14) who are afraid to say anything and may even be in denial about the pregnancy until the 2nd trimester. I don't think girls under the age of 15 should be having babies. They may look grown up on the outside, but are still maturing internally and whatever nutrition they take in should be for themselves not for a developing baby. Childbirth is hard enough on women who are old enough without "little girls" having babies and they may find it more difficult to have children later on if they give birth at too young of an age. Besides that, they are more likely to have premature and low birthweight babies, and babies with birth defects. Biological incest is more likely to result in birth defects. Even if it's not the latter, I just don't think a 12 year old girl should be forced to have her step-father's child. It's sad to have to choose between her and the child, but it's not HER fault this is happening.
Yes, partial birth abortion is barbaric and should be outlawed. I don't agree with Dems who support this one, but I look at all of a candidate's positions not just at one.
How can pro-life people support Bush's pre-emptive immoral oil war when it has killed thousands and thousands of children? Because they're Islamic Iraqi children? That's so hypocritical. You can't be both pro-life and pro-war.
Democat has a hard time understanding how Ann Coulter can be an attractive woman when with her extremely nasty views you'd expect her to look like a bitter old crone. Must be like a "Picture of Dorian Gray" type of thing. I do NOT ever want to see Ann Coulter's painting in that case.
KMOU is Country right? I think I'll pass on that. Listened to KPFX last night. Pretty good and love that 70s music!!! Are you on every night?!!! When do you sleep?!! I thought a voice track is like voice overs -narration or doing cartoon voices, etc.- it sounded like you were live. Anyway, glad to know when I can listen for you besides AMs.
Also, what is it with you and Bob and Nascar?!!! Guess, it must be a guy thing. I like pretty cars (esp. 'vettes) but other than that they're just a way to get from one place to another (that attitude is a girl thing-smile)
Kids should not be having kids, that is a fact...but the solution has to be a change in what is acceptable in culture, not easier abortion.
this is a product of the "tolerance" of the Left. This is the "understanding" of people. We have spent the last 20 years making sure no one feels bad for anything they do...we can't hurt anyones self esteem. Well, now people do whatever they want, whenever they want...no one can tell anyone they are wrong.
Listener info for Roswell.
A caller a couple of weeks back asked who could afford to buy and do upkeep on vehicles with the rising gas prices and future interest rate increases. Someone pointed out, not on your show, that apparently it is those who can afford to buy new SUVs with the personalized license plate reading "USA OIL". A SUV that is not American made - I guess global oil wouldn't fit on the plate.
The question was asked, "will Good Night and Good Luck ever play in Roswell" ?
Yes, I agree that there needs to be a change in culture (i.e. society). I'm having a problem w/my 15 year old son, right now, because of the peer pressure to start dating at like age 12 or earlier. Because boys are immature compared to girls and he's immature, anyway, I have told him that he can start dating at age 16. I feel like he should do things where he would gain some understanding of girls (CHAPERONED parties, dances, etc.) and mature
before he actually starts dating. I was in a huge hurry to grow up (back in the free love 70s) and regret it. Didn't want my own kids to make the same mistake.
However, I do distinguish between a college girl who had an accident and can bear a child safely and a 12 year old who got pregnant in a gang initiation or worse. Why can't you? The idea is to stop things like that from happening and reduce the abortion rate so it will be rare.
Re: today's show
Couldn't call in, so my comments for those bloggers who listen to it.
Re: Ann Coulter's inconsistancy.
She most likely discovered how much money there was to be made by catering to the rightwingers and is spreading hate and neo-con propaganda for pure profit. She couldn't like believe all this garbage she writes, could she?
Re: Tom Delay-already commented on that on the blog. SOME folks get special favors, unfortunately.
Ron didn't mention OUR environment when he was talking about Christian values. Protecting God's Creation is a Christian value!!!
Re: one caller that denies she's a Liberal. I have given her the REAL definition of Liberal before, but she just can't get past the idea that to be a Liberal you have to be pro-choice (she's not). Our forefathers were Liberal. They were enlightened and progressive. This is why America is a Democratic-Republic and not a monarchy.
Re: finding common ground between Conservatives and Liberals-absolutely it's possible to do. The Game and I still don't agree on many things, but once we stopped name calling and engaged in real debate we did find we could agree on some things.
Wish Maniac and Linda would forgive Ron, tho.(He's just too nice to stay mad at, isn't he? Smile Face) Plus the show is too important to hold grudges. We gotta think about what's really important.
Peace!
The vast majority of doctors agree that dilation and extraction is the safest method of terminating a pregnancy in the late term. Sometimes it's done in order to preserve the woman's ability to have children in the future. So do we forfeit the possibility of healthy future children to "save" a fetus of questionable viability whose birth puts those future children at risk?
1) Show me data showing that there is any evidence of dilation and extractions done for birth control purposes. Show me who aborts a fetus in the third trimester for birth control. If you can show me one, then tell me why the hundreds of health-related d&e's must be outlawed for the one case of birth control occurrence?
2) The majority of Americans are pro-choice. Nobody is "pro-abortion."
3) Women have been having abortions for thousands of years. Until they became safe and legal, woman probably had as much of a chance of killing themselves as ending their pregnancy. Woman, girls, will ALWAYS find a way to end an unwanted pregnancy. ALWAYS. Are you going to say to your daughter if she gets pregnant that she WILL have a baby or roll the dice on an unsafe abortion. Because she can't be forced to have the baby unless you lock her up. And don't cop out on this by saying you will teach your daughter not to have sex. Girls get pregnant, it happens. So answer the question. "The coat-hanger, falling down stairs comment is silly. It won't happen." This was common before legal abortions, so why would it be silly? What is going to keep it from happening again if abortions are no longer legal?
If abortion is killing a baby as you say, why is it OK in some cases? Rape? Killing a baby. Incest? Killing a baby. Woman's health or ability to bear children in the future? Nope! Can't kill THAT baby.
Hey Lame Game:
you wrote:
"We have spent the last 20 years making sure no one feels bad for anything they do...we can't hurt anyones self esteem. Well, now people do whatever they want, whenever they want...no one can tell anyone they are wrong."
This describes what is wrong with you. You did not get the direction you needed. How sad for you. Join up, enlist. It is not to late to be somebody.
I am a mother of 6, and could probably never have had an abortion myself. However, there is no doubt MY life was altered because of the mores of my time and the idea that what a woman should do with her life was to be a wife and mother. Never mind whether she was well-suited for those roles or not.
Think of ALL the contributions women could have given the world throughout history if they had not been made to be brood mares before anything else!!
I believe any woman should have the right to have an abortion if SHE so desires!! I believe the way it is stated in the Democratic platform is right on!! "Abortion should be safe, legal, and RARE."
I believe in teaching kids that abstinence is best. But, I also believe in teaching birth control and safe sex. I also believe teens should be taught that "casual sex" is not all it is made out to be by the movies and such. Especially in the case of girls. They are looking for love and mistake sex for "love." Boys use that line all the time. "If you really love me..."
As long as "God" aborts so many fetuses Himself, I cannot get bent out of shape that a woman aborts a fetus. NO WAY will I ever believe that spontaneous ("God's) abortions are God's will!! I know too many women who have desperately wanted babies that they miscarried. IF those miscarriages are "God's will" well, who needs a devil if God is that sadistic and mean-spirited?? No way do I believe those miscarriages are somehow "God's will." I believe He just does not interfere in the body rejecting a fetus -- or whatever it is that is responsible for those miscarriages.
The most important part of any person -- fetus or otherwise (if the fetus has a soul) is the soul. The soul belongs to God at all times and will go back to God whenever the fetus or body it is housed in dies. If God wants taht soul to experience life, He will simply put it in another fetus -- one that won't be aborted. And one MIGHT wonder why He did not do that in the first place!! ALSO, WHY do "pro-lifers" think God is so powerless?? Do they TRULY believe that IF GOD really wants a child to be born it won't be born?? Do they not think GOD CAN CHANGE THE HEART of a woman so that she cannot go through with an abortion??? That actually happens quite frequently, I think, and, in my opinion, it is what "pro lifers" should pray for.
Therefore, I cannot see why aborion is such a big deal. I believe if God really wants a baby to be born it WILL be born!! I am more concerned about what an abortion does to the mental health of the mother than the fact that it ends a "life."
In earlier times a fetus was usually not considered to be a person until after "quickening" and sometimes not until after birth.
The rich will ALWAYS have abortions and get away with it. Bush's daughters would have secret abortions. Just as his girlfriend did.
Studies have shown that abortions do not cut down on the number of children a woman has. They just alter the timing of the births. Therefore a woman who aborts a baby will USUALLY have a baby later that she would not have had if she had not aborted one that she did.
Abstinence should be encouraged. SELF CONTROL should be encouraged and taught. Responsible sex and birth control should also both be taught. Self-esteem should be taught.
BUT, for a SURE cure for unwanted pregnancies, ALL boys should freeze sperm in two sperm banks at the age of twelve and then have mandatory vasectomies. THAT would solve the problem, and it would be the MEN who paid for their "fun" for a change!!
It is not fair to bring Bush's other girlfriends and the murder of Bush's unborn child in to the controversy. That was the past. Just like his drunk driving and little cocaine problem. Bush's problems with his medication should not be brought up either. It is not fair.
For Democat and whoever else is interested. This is Helen Thomas and Scotty on October 18th about the killing of civilians in Iraq from the press briefing.
Q Dispatches from Iraq said that yesterday we killed 70 people in Iraq, near Ramadi, including 18 children. I want to know what the President thinks of that.
MR. McCLELLAN: Well, first of all, I think you need to talk to the military, because the military --
Q No, I'm talking here.
MR. McCLELLAN: Yes, and as I'm responding to you, the military has said otherwise at this point. Now, the military has review mechanisms in place and when there are questions raised, they look into those matters, and so that's something that, obviously, they will look into. But, beyond that, you'd have to talk to the military about where that stands. Now --
Q Eighteen children --
MR. McCLELLAN: -- in terms of our United States military, our military goes out of the way not to target --
Q Why were 18 children killed?
MR. McCLELLAN: Our military goes out of the way not to target innocent civilians.
Q I'm not saying they were targeted --
MR. McCLELLAN: Our military goes out of the way to target the enemy, and to --
Q Why did they say 18 children?
MR. McCLELLAN: -- bring to justice the terrorists and those who are seeking to prevent democracy from taking hold, through violent means, to justice. And that's what our military does. And they do --
Q Seventy people were killed by an air strike.
MR. McCLELLAN: Helen, please let me respond, because I think it's important to point this out when you're bringing up a question like this. We fully support our men and women in uniform. They're doing an outstanding job to defend our freedoms and to help the Iraqi people move forward on a free --
Q I'm not saying -- I'm saying why did they kill 70 people?
MR. McCLELLAN: -- to move forward on a free and peaceful future. I think everybody in this room would like me to have the opportunity to be able to talk to you about this question. And you're assuming things that people have different recollections about right now, or have characterized very differently. And that's why I said the military has review mechanisms in place, when situations like this arise, and they look into those matters. That's why you need to talk to the military, to see where that stands.
Q Are the figures wrong in all the newspapers?
MR. McCLELLAN: The military is looking into the matter, Helen. I don't have any more information at this point.
Q If I could follow on Helen's question, though. Whatever the facts of this particular situation are, war is an inexact business, and children do get killed. And what I think she's asking is for a response from the President about children who may have been killed as a result of American action.
MR. McCLELLAN: Look, I don't want to assume, because this is an incident that's being looked into.
Q I'm not assuming. I'm not assuming.
MR. McCLELLAN: And I want to also make the point -- and I think you can go back and look at this -- yes, war is always the last resort. It's not something that's pleasant. But it is a decision that sometimes the Commander-in-Chief has to make in order to protect the American people. And he made the decision that we were going to go on the offensive in this global war on terrorism that we're engaged in, and that's exactly what we're doing, and that we're going to work to spread freedom and democracy in a part of the world that is in need of hope. And you have to recognize the struggle that we're engaged in.
And there are people in Iraq, terrorists, who recognized how high the stakes are, and they're seeking to do everything they can to stop the democratic process from advancing. And there are attacks carried out on some of our troops. And when those attacks are carried out on our troops, you have others that respond to that. And we appreciate all that our men and women in uniform are doing when it comes to defending our freedoms abroad.
Now, in terms of any innocent people being killed, we mourn the loss of any innocent life that is lost. We have seen that the terrorists have no regard for innocent human life. That's the difference between the enemy and between those in the civilized world who are committed to spreading freedom and peace. We target the enemy; they target innocent civilians. And there's a stark contrast in how we go about waging this war on terrorism. They carry out cowardly acts against innocent civilians. We go after those who seek to do harm to those innocent civilians.
Lonna
Lonna;
The donkey read about this exchange. The Donkey knows most USA citizens stopped following the Iraq war months ago. Now most deaths in Iraq seldom are printed in the RDR. If it is it is not on the front page.
The Donkey is glad you are back. Welcome back to Roswell.
Excerpt from article about the wounded at Walter Reed.
…A veteran with Iraq Veterans Against the War recently commented that after the guys return home and realize that on the home front Americans barely cared about the war, that here patriotism is an empty gesture because no one sacrifices anything, they will become angry.
To this day, some 38 years later, when I hear someone on the radio discuss the World Series in 1967, or some similar remark about 1967, I cringe. That was the year I was fighting in Vietnam. That was the year thousands of young Americans were dying and losing limbs and their minds for, supposedly, their country. But our country was excited about the World Series, and…. If a war is important enough for soldiers to be maimed and to die for, it is important enough for all Americans to sacrifice something. Something!
The World Series of baseball should have been cancelled in 1967, as it should be cancelled today, because America has young men fighting in a war.
But Americans are barely paying attention and would refuse to give substance to their patriotism, a clear indication this is not a war for the defense of America. We have an administration that won’t fully fund veterans’ health care, while it does not properly equip our troops in war. And we are a people not insisting our veterans have adequate health care and our soldiers have proper equipment. This is wrong, America. Wrong to those with “road kill” legs, wrong to those with partial faces, wrong to those with missing limbs…
To read the entire article by Stewart Nusbaumer, a Vietnam amputee writing about Walter Reed Hospital and todays maimed, go here.
http://www.interventionmag.com/cms/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=1190
Stewart put up my first article -- "Letter to an American Foot Solider" on his VAIW site two years ago, and several of my other articles up before we came to a parting of the ways.
Lonna
Donkey, thanks for the "welcome back." As to the "why" well, Americans want to enjoy life. They want to be comfortable. They do not want to think about things that might make them uncomfortable. So, they are eager to buy the "my leaders are good people who know what they are doing," argument, and they sure don't want to believe their country's policies are anything but altruistic. We are the good guys. They refuse to accept or even listen to any information that might indicate otherwise. Arthur Miller stated it well. I will find that quote and put it up at some point in time.
Lonna
From "Death Watch at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue," at Capitol Hill Blues
...This week, Former Secretary of State Colin Powell’s right-hand man unloaded on the Bush Administration during a speech to the New American Foundation, saying American foreign policy had been hijacked by “a Cheney-Rumsfeld cabal” that has destroyed this country’s credibility with its allies.
“I’m not sure the State Department even exists anymore,” Col. Larry Wilkerson, Powell’s chief of staff, told the audience of journalists and scholars. “It, like so many others things, have been destroyed by George W. Bush’s ‘cowboyism.’”
Wilkerson dismisses the Administration’s attempts to improve America’s image abroad.
“You can’t sell shit,” he said.
Wilkerson isn’t the only high-profile Republican operative bailing on Bush. Bruce Bartlett, who served as a Senior Policy Advisor in Bush’s father’s administration, is about to release a book: Imposter: How George W. Bush Bankrupted America and Destroyed the Reagan Legacy. Bartlett lost his job at the National Center for Policy Analysis, a conservative Texas think tank, when word of his book project leaked out.
Republicans, the last to finally acknowledge the lies and duplicity of the Bush White House, no longer trust the Administration. When current Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice testified before Congress this week and claimed “significant progress” in Iraq, Republican Senator Lincoln Chaffee of Rhode Island fired back: “Well, we all wish that were true, but we can't kid ourselves, either.”
But Wilkerson, a veteran with 31 years in the Marines and a former director of the Marine War College, sums up what, sadly, will be the legacy of George W. Bush:
“If there is a nuclear terrorist attack or a major pandemic you are going to see the ineptitude of this government in a way that'll take you back to the Declaration of Independence.”
Lonna
For the Game who recently crowed that the draft some said was inevitable hadn't happened, I hope he will see fit to copy this to his own blog. From an article by Vietnam Veteran Mick Youther:
Despite the overwhelming evidence of the need for a military draft, the Bush Administration has steadfastly refused to take that step. How can they continue to make war without an adequate supply of cannon-fodder? It is easy, if you are a compassionate conservative.
Apparently, the compassionate conservative plan is to rotate the same people in and out of Iraq again and again—until they are killed or wounded so badly they are no longer of any use to the Bush war machine. If they are only wounded, physically or mentally—Heaven help them because Bush and the Republican Congress are too busy cutting their benefits to do anything to help them.
“In Iraq, the United States is pushing the military to the limit—maybe beyond. According to the Department of Defense, 1.1 million American service personnel had served in Iraq or Afghanistan (mostly in Iraq) by the end of June. Almost 300,000 of those have now served more than one tour. Some have gone overseas three times.” -- Mark Benjamin, Salon.com, 10/10/05
“Part-time soldiers—Army national guardsmen and reservists—who often have handled support roles, not frontline combat roles, are slightly more likely to have served more than one deployment to the conflict zones than regular Army members.” --Monica Davey, The New York Times, 12/20/04
“Seven months ago, my service in the army was to have terminated. Instead, I am in Iraq for the second time. I sit next to a DOD contractor whose job is identical to mine. Except he makes $120,000 more, works four hours less, and visits home four times more often than I do.” --Daniel Goetz, currently serving in Samarra, Iraq, Operation Truth, 10/14/05
If you can’t get enough people to enlist, and you refuse to use the draft; you have to keep the troops you have. The Bush Administration does this in a number of ways. In June 2004, they issued a “stop-loss” order that forced thousands of soldiers to stay in the service, even though their contractual commitments had been fulfilled. They also called up more than 4000 people who had served their hitch and had been honorably discharged. It seems that upon being discharged, you remain in the Individual Ready Reserve for the remainder of an 8-year commitment. It is rare for these people to be called up; but this is BushWorld, and no sacrifice is too great for his noble cause.
Incentives can be offered:
“[Soldiers of Fort Carson, Colorado’s 3rd Brigade Combat Team] were told to reenlist for three more years or be transferred to units deploying for Iraq. These all-volunteer active-duty soldiers suddenly find themselves involuntarily restrained until 2007.” --Sheila Samples, Dissidentvoice.org, 10/26/04 (I wonder if they are in Iraq yet.)
“The Pentagon has reneged on its offer to pay a $15,000 bonus to members of the National Guard and Army Reserve who agree to extend their enlistments by six years, according to Sen. Patty Murray (D-Seattle).” --Les Blumenthal, The News Tribune (Tacoma, Washington), 10/16/05
“National Guardsmen returning from duty in Iraq are finding that the funds promised them for tuition reimbursement are in short supply. The federal program that is supposed to defray up to 75 percent of their college expenses is broke, with no new funds in sight until this fall.” --AP, 4/4/04
Malingering cannot be tolerated:
“[The Guardian] learned of soldiers who were deployed with almost willful disregard to their medical histories, and with the most cursory physical examinations. Soldiers went to war with chronic illnesses such as coronary disease, mental illness, arthritis, diabetes and the nervous condition, Tourette's syndrome, or after undergoing recent surgery.” --Suzanne Goldenberg, The Guardian, 4/3/04
After predicting a “Bush Draft”, I got several emails, informing me that it was the Democrats who were pushing for a draft—not Bush. They didn’t need to bother—I was well aware that Democrats had introduced bills to reinstate the draft; and I knew exactly why they did it.
“Rep. Rangel (NY) and 13 other Democrats introduced the bill prior to the war in Iraq. Rangel believes the all-voluntary military is an unjust form of military conscription that draws primarily from the economically disadvantaged. He also believes the U.S. would be more cautious about going to war if everyone's son or daughter had an equal likelihood of being called upon to fight.” -- Friends Committee on National Legislation (FCNL), 2/23/05
…but it wasn’t only democrats:
“Sen. Chuck Hagel, a Vietnam War veteran and influential member of the Foreign Relations Committee, wants the United States to consider reviving the draft as part of a broader effort to ensure that all Americans "bear some responsibility, ... pay some price" in defending the nation's interests.” --Helen Dewar, The Washington Post, 4/22/04
If a threat is so imminent, or cause so noble, that America is compelled to go to war; we should all have to share the burden. The next time politicians want to take America into war, we should insist that their children be on the front line. If it is not worth the lives of their children, it is not worth the lives of anyone’s children.
Lonna
Dear Lonna,
The donkey reads Capitol Hill Blue sometimes and did read the 1600 Penn. article. The Donkey reads your posts about the veterans and is saddened. It is hard to sacrifice so much for people who care so little.
My friend is back in back in town for a few days. He will be in Iraq soon. I will say no more because I would not want to compromise information about troops, unlike some people.
Game, young people and others have been having sex outside of marriage from time immemorial.Yes even in the "pure" 50s. In the past abortions were back alley and from people of questionable credentials. In youth especially, sex has serious emotional overtones and it should be discouraged for that reason. Birth control should be avaliable for people who can't resist being human. Don't try to criminalize sex! Those you are trying to influence will just laugh at your naivety.
when did I criminalize sex?
I just want killing babies 2 seconds before they are born to be illegal...
give me the quote where I say sex is wrong...
is teenage sex unhealthy and cause emotional, physical and social problems...every single piece of literature will back that statement up...maybe now someone's "feelings"...but any study ever done says that kids should not be having kids...teen pregancy ruins young girls lives...don't think it is a bad thing to try and post-pone it..
how many kids do you think are having sex in high schol jim or anyone else?
I know the exact answer, and I can give it for any area of the country or any big city.
Hey Lame Game:
When I want your monkey-brained opinion I'll rattle your cage, okay? I see you've set aside this special time to humiliate yourself on the Internet.
The Donkey is reminded of something relevant that Benjamin Disraeli said: "He was distinguished for ignorance - for he had only one idea and that was wrong." Your ineffective imitation of good posting style only serves to illuminate your lack of substance, good taste, and decency.
I feel bad for how pathetic you are donkey...you have no ability to argue any issue...you are so sad and it makes me so happy.
I agree with you, Game, about killing a baby two seconds before it's born. (Embryos are 6-9) months away from being born.) Partial birth abortion is barbaric, as I said, and I think the real reason for it is to harvest those stem cells for research. You said you agreed with me 90% on abortion. If that's true, this means you are basically more moderate on this issue than many people are. It's not a black and white issue.
Ron is absolutely right about the emotional component of teen sex, especially for girls and about contraception. The Game and I agree on this one, too, emphasize abstinance but teach contraception because it's practical.
nice job democat...
I think we might agree 100%...
I am not hard right on this...besides the crap donkey says I do think logically...
we can argue when it is a "baby" I would argue way before 9 months...
but I am not really against the morning after pill...I can probably compromise the first trimester atleast...after that the likelihood of the baby being born goes up too high...
Game...Very Good!! We are forming a consensus here. I agree....See..It can be done!!!!
Eliminate millions of abortions. Support birth control.
My 78 year old mother thinks people being against the morning after pill is just so stupid she can't even express her frustration with it!! Of course I can see where people might come to rely on the morning after pill, which would not be the best idea in the world. However, I imagine it would be pretty expensive birth control if used AS the "every day" method of birth control.
If I am not mistaken, there are almost NO partial birth abortions performed. And the ones that are performed are for compelling reasons. Of course the fanatics probably found ONE that was not cricket and exaggerated it until they had people thinking those late term abortions of healthy fetuses in healthy mothers were being done all the time. Virtually no sane person thinks partial birth abortion is "okay" except for the most compelling of reasons.
Lonna
support birth control...but don't give up on abstinence and being responsible
to the lame game:
Antiquis temporibus, nati tibi similes in rupibus ventosissimis exponebantur ad necem
Aquila non captat muscas
Well, I'm going to England. LOL.
An oldie but goodie for you:
NOTICE OF REVOCATION OF INDEPENDENCE
by Basil Fawlty
Date: 11/5/2004 4:48:16 PM Pacific Standard Time
Fawlty Towers, Torquay, Devon, England
NOTICE OF REVOCATION OF INDEPENDENCE
To the citizens of the United States of America, In the light of your failure to elect a competent President of the USA and thus to govern yourselves, we hereby give notice of the revocation of your independence, effective today. Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II will resume monarchical duties over all states, commonwealths and other territories. Except Utah, which she does not fancy.
Your new prime minister (The Right Honourable Tony Blair, MP for the 97.85% of you who have until now been unaware that there is a world outside your borders) will appoint a minister for America without the need for further elections. Congress and the Senate will be disbanded. A questionnaire will be circulated next year to determine whether any of you noticed. To aid in the transition to a British Crown Dependency, the following rules are introduced with immediate effect:
1. You should look up "revocation" in the Oxford English Dictionary. Then look up "aluminium".
Check the pronunciation guide. You will be amazed at just how wrongly you have been pronouncing it. The letter 'U' will be reinstated in words such as 'favour' and 'neighbour', skipping the letter 'U' is nothing more than laziness on your part. Likewise, you will learn to spell 'doughnut' without skipping half the letters. You will end your love affair with the letter 'Z' (pronounced 'zed' not 'zee') and the suffix "ize" will be replaced by the suffix "ise".
You will learn that the suffix 'burgh is pronounced 'burra' e.g. Edinburgh. You are welcome to respell Pittsburgh as 'Pittsberg' if you can't cope with correct pronunciation. Generally, you should raise your vocabulary to acceptable levels. Look up "vocabulary". Using the same twenty seven words interspersed with filler noises such as "like" and "you know" is an unacceptable and inefficient form of communication. Look up "interspersed". There will be no more 'bleeps' in the Jerry Springer show. If you're not old enough to cope with bad language then you shouldn't have chat shows. When you learn to develop your vocabulary then you won't have to use bad language as often.
2. There is no such thing as "US English". We will let Microsoft know on your behalf. The Microsoft spell-checker will be adjusted to take account of the reinstated letter 'u' and the elimination of "-ize".
3. You should learn to distinguish the English and Australian accents. It really isn't that hard.
English accents are not limited to cockney, upper-class twit or Mancunian (Daphne in Frasier).
You will also have to learn how to understand regional accents - Scottish dramas such as "Taggart" will no longer be broadcast with subtitles. While we're talking about regions, you must learn that there is no such place as Devonshire in England. The name of the county is "Devon". If you persist in calling it Devonshire, all American States will become "shires" e.g. Texasshire, Floridashire, Louisianashire.
4. Hollywood will be required occasionally to cast English actors as the good guys. Hollywood will be required to cast English actors to play English characters. British sit-coms such as "Men Behaving Badly" or "Red Dwarf" will not be re-cast and watered down for a wishy-washy American audience who can't cope with the humour of occasional political incorrectness.
5. You should relearn your original national anthem, "God Save The Queen", but only after fully carrying out task 1. We would not want you to get confused and give up half way through.
6. You should stop playing American "football".
There is only one kind of football. What you refer to as American "football" is not a very good game.
The 2.15% of you who are aware that there is a world outside your borders may have noticed that no one else plays "American" football. You will no longer be allowed to play it, and should instead play proper football. Initially, it would be best if you played with the girls. It is a difficult game. Those of you brave enough will, in time, be allowed to play rugby (which is similar to American "football", but does not involve stopping for a rest every twenty seconds or wearing full kevlar body armour like nancies). We are hoping to get together at least a US Rugby sevens side by 2005. You should stop playing baseball. It is not reasonable to host an event called the 'World Series' for a game which is not played outside of America. Since only 2.15% of you are aware that there is a world beyond your borders, your error is understandable. Instead of baseball, you will be allowed to play a girls' game called "rounders" which is baseball without fancy team strip, oversized gloves, collector cards or hotdogs.
7. You will no longer be allowed to own or carry guns. You willno longer be allowed to own or carry anything more dangerous in public than a vegetable peeler. Because we don't believe you are sensible enough to handle potentially dangerous items, you will require a permit if you wish to carry a vegetable peeler in public.
8. July 4th is no longer a public holiday. November
2nd will be a new national holiday, but only in England. It will be called "Indecisive Day".
9. All American cars are hereby banned. They are crap and it is for your own good. When we show you German cars, you will understand what we mean. All road intersections will be replaced with roundabouts. You will start driving on the left with immediate effect. At the same time, you will go metric with immediate effect and without the benefit of conversion tables. Roundabouts and metrication will help you understand the British sense of humour.
10. You will learn to make real chips. Those things you call French fries are not real chips. Fries aren't even French, they are Belgian though 97.85% of you (including the guy who discovered fries while in Europe) are not aware of a country called Belgium. Those things you insist on calling potato chips are properly called "crisps". Real chips are thick cut and fried in animal fat. The traditional accompaniment to chips is beer which should be served warm and flat. Waitresses will be trained to be more aggressive with customers.
11. As a sign of penance 5 grams of sea salt per cup will be added to all tea made within the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, this quantity to be doubled for tea made within the city of Boston itself.
12. The cold tasteless stuff you insist on calling beer is not actually beer at all, it is lager. From November 1st only proper British Bitter will be referred to as "beer", and European brews of known and accepted provenance will be referred to as "Lager". The substances formerly known as "American Beer" will henceforth be referred to as "Near-Frozen Knat's Urine", with the exception of the product of the American Budweiser company whose product will be referred to as "Weak Near-Frozen Knat's Urine". This will allow true Budweiser (as manufactured for the last
1000 years in Pilsen, Czech Republic) to be sold without risk of confusion.
13. From November 10th the UK will harmonise petrol (or "Gasoline" as you will be permitted to keep calling it until April 1st 2005) prices with the former USA. The UK will harmonise its prices to those of the former USA and the Former USA will, in return, adopt UK petrol prices (roughly $6/US gallon - get used to it).
14. You will learn to resolve personal issues without using guns, lawyers or therapists. The fact that you need so many lawyers and therapists shows that you're not adult enough to be independent. Guns should only be handled by adults. If you're not adult enough to sort things out without suing someone or speaking to a therapist then you're not grown up enough to handle a gun.
15. Please tell us who killed JFK. It's been driving us crazy.
Tax collectors from Her Majesty's Government will be with you shortly to ensure the acquisition of all revenues due (backdated to 1776).
Thank you for your co-operation.
Your LAST post here, Game, was dead on.
However, so many of those crying for abstinance, IF they are honest, DID NOT practice it themselves. Our president, for instance, was a real womanizer from his early days. AND probably paid for at least one abortion. It is amazing the number of people who don't remember or "reinvent" their own pasts.
Also, a lot of the ones preaching abtinence are people who got married at 17 or 18. BIG DEAL for them!! What about the kids, NOW, who go to college and on to get advanced degrees and are in their mid-thirties before they can even consider marriage?? Abstinence til THEY got married would be a much bigger deal and is NOT a realistic expectation.
Lonna
Also, isn't it interesting that in Bible times and throughout history until the last 100 years or so kids in many cultures, even boys, were married off at a very young age. Jewish boys were married off at 14 or 15 or even younger to girls who were 12 or 13 or so. Some girls were married at 9 or 10. That is because those people recognized how strong the sex urge is when boys are young. The OLD MEN who make laws and self-righteous pronouncements in developed countries today have forgotten what it is like to be young.
Of course girls and women STILL have very little say over their lives in the majority of countries in the world. They are still not equal. Sadly, even in this country 28% of people would not vote for a woman for president. Even more sadly, 21 or 23% of WOMEN would not vote for a woman for president.
Lonna
Making a big deal of the Plame Leak is nonsense, said Dennis Praeger today.
That is NOT what the president said. From "Talking Points Memo"
Moving the Goal Posts
October 24, 2005
· In 2003 – and again in 2004 – President Bush said he would fire anyone found to be involved in the leak of Valerie Plame’s name. He didn’t say he would fire anyone who “committed a crime.” He said we would fire anyone found to be involved in the leak. [Bush Media Availability, 9/30/03]
· The president called the leak of Plame’s identity “a serious charge,” and “a criminal action.” [President Bush, 10/6/03] He said the “the special prosecutor is conducting a very serious investigation – he’s doing it in a very dignified way…” [10/11/05]
· The Department of Justice directed Special Prosecutor Fitzgerald to investigate whether any crimes were committed as part of the “alleged unauthorized disclosure of a CIA employee’s identity.” He was not told to determine whether there was a violation of the “Intelligence Identities Act of 1992,” as conservative talkers assert. He was charged with investigating whether any crimes were committed in connection with the leak. Period. [http://www.thinkprogress.org/leak-rebuttal].
· Perjury is a crime. Perjury is a felony. Obstruction of justice is a felony.
· Special Prosecutor Fitzgerald will determine if any crimes were committed. But there is no disputing the fact that Karl Rove and I. Lewis Libby were involved in the leak. These men undertook a campaign to discredit Wilson and his wife and then they lied about it. Regardless of what Fitzgerald finds, the president must purge the White House of Karl Rove, I. Lewis Libby and all staff involved in the leak.
· This investigation is not a simple case of the White House “smearing political foes.” Ultimately, it is case about the White House manipulating intelligence to sell the war in Iraq and then lying to cover it up. The president owes the country an answer on the larger and far more troubling question of why the White House manipulated intelligence to make the case for a war that has made our country less safe and cost nearly 2,000 American lives.
Bush said the leak was SERIOUS, and that he would fire anyone involved. We know both Libby and Rove were involved, they have not been fired. Ergo, the president is a liar.
Of course that is only one of the lies that he has told. The lies that he has told would fill volumes. And, in fact volumes have been written about them. And his lies are important. They have destroyed, the economy, the enviroment, our reputation around the world, AND they are responsible for the deaths and maimings of hundreds of thousands of people.
Lonna
Lonna
Lonna
abstinence doesn't have to mean til marriage really...
I can mean to just wait until you are older (I always make a strong case to my kids to wait until 18)
It can also mean until you are in a long-term relationship..
the goal is to stop teen pregnancy and STD's...so delaying sex as long as possible, trying to have the kids wait until they know the person, and being safe when they actually do have sex is the way to accomplish the goal
Game, personally, I think it is a baby right away. At least, I thought of my children as babies as soon as I even suspected I was pregnant. This is MY opinion, tho. At the very least, it is a human life in the early stages of development. I do think that abortion is more wrong after the first trimester and becomes more wrong as the fetus (baby) develops and has more cognitive awareness. This maybe has something to do with the idea that the soul enters the child at the time of quickening (about 4 1/2-5 mo.). At this point or very soon, advances in neo-natal medicine will save at least some 5 month fetuses. I do, have a problem with not aborting fetuses with severe birth defects(no brains or other organs on outside of body, etc.), or who will die painful deaths soon after birth. I think that allowing these babies to be born and shunting them off to a corner of the nursery to starve is inhumane. I believe in mercy killing and assisted suicide for those who are suffering painful deaths, etc.. We do more for our pets than we do for human beings, it seems. This can be our new debate topic.
Hey Lame game:
Abstinence is voluntary forbearance especially from indulgence of an appetite or craving or from eating some foods. Forbear is to hold oneself back from especially with an effort. I have not seen word meanings butchered so badly since Bush's last unscriped remarks. Why bother having a dictionary, if you are going to make up meanings as you type?
You are a fornicator. What church do you go to? Do they agree with your fornications, you hypocrite?
To Lonna;
You wrote: "Perjury is a crime. Perjury is a felony. Obstruction of justice is a felony."
The Donkey would add treason is a crime in the USA.
dura lex sed lex --the law is hard, but it is the law
Actually, Donkey, it was Josh Marshall from TPM who wrote perjury was a crime. I should have put his words in quotes. It is him until my words start again at 'Bush said he would fire anyone involved in the leak. He did not, therefore he lied, therefore he is a liar.
Lonna
To Lonna:
Thank you for the clarification.
errare humanum est-to err is human
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