Thursday, June 09, 2005

Coffee Table

The coffee is warmed up and it's time to tell it like it is. Click on the "comments" and go for it!

21 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Donkey came across this on the web.
The 14 Defining
Characteristics Of Fascism
by Dr. Lawrence Britt

Dr. Lawrence Britt has examined the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia) and several Latin American regimes. Britt found 14-defining characteristics common to each:

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism -
Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays. TOP

2. Disdain for
the Recognition of Human Rights -
Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc. TOP

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats
as a Unifying Cause -
The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc. TOP

4. Supremacy of the Military -
Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized. TOP

5. Rampant Sexism -
The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution. TOP

6. Controlled Mass Media -
Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common. TOP

7. Obsession with National Security -
Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses. TOP

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined -
Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions. TOP

9. Corporate Power is Protected -
The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite. TOP

10. Labor Power is Suppressed -
Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed. TOP

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts -
Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked. TOP

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment -
Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption -
Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders. TOP

14. Fraudulent Elections -
Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections. TOP

________________________________

An interesting note to end this article: As of January 2004, the United States fulfills all fourteen points of fascism and all seven warning signs are present. But we're not alone. Israel also fulfills all fourteen points and all seven warning signs as well. Welcome to the new republic, redefined, revised and spun. It is not too late to reverse this in either country, but it will be soon. The first step is realizing it. The second step is getting involved. As the propaganda slogan disguising our current war goes, "Freedom isn't free." But our war for freedom isn't abroad; it's here at home.

11:32 PM, June 09, 2005  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Donkey is concerned.

The 7 conditions (Warning signs)
that foster & fuel fascism are:

1.

Instability of capitalist relationships or markets
2.

The existence of considerable declassed social elements
3.

The stripping of rights and wealth focused upon a specific segment of the population, specifically the middle class and intellectuals within urban areas as this the group with the means, intelligence and ability to stop fascism if given the opportunity.
4.

Discontent among the rural lower middle class (clerks, secretaries, white collar labor). Consistent discontent among the general middle and lower middle classes against the oppressing upper-classes (haves vs have-nots).
5.

Hate: Pronounced, perpetuated and accepted public disdain of a specific group defined by race, origin, theology or association.
6.

Greed: The motivator of fascism, which is generally associated with land, space or scarce resources in the possession of those being oppressed.

7.

Organized Propaganda:

a) The creation of social mythology that venerates (creates saints of) one element of society while concurrently vilifying (dehumanizing) another element of the population through misinformation, misdirection and the obscuring of factual matter through removal, destruction or social humiliation, (name-calling, false accusations, belittling and threats).

b) The squelching of public debate not agreeing with the popular agenda via slander, libel, threats, theft, destruction, historical revisionism and social humiliation. Journalists in particular are terrorized if they attempt to publish stories contrary to the agenda.

3. Fascism dovetails business & government sectors into a single economic unit, while concurrently increasing in-fighting and distrust between the units fostering advancement towards war. TOP

4. a) Fascism promotes chauvinist demagogy, (appealing to the prejudices and emotions of the populace) by fostering selective persecution and accepted public vilification of the target group. It then promotes this a "patriotic", "supportive" or "the party line" and disagreement with such as "anti-government", "anti-faith" or "anti-nation".

b) Fascism creates confusion through "facts". It relies on junk science, revisionism, the elimination of cultural records/treasures and obfuscations to create its case and gain acceptance. Fascism can also combine Marxist critiques of capitalism or faith based critics of the same to re-define middle class perceptions of democracy and to force its issues, confuse logic and create majority consensus between targeted groups. This is also referred to as creating a state of Cognitive Dissonance, the mental state most human beings are easily manipulated within. TOP

5. Both middle and upper-middle-class dictated democracy and fascism are class dictatorships that use organized violence (verbal or physical) to maintain the class rule of the oppressors over the oppressed.

The difference between the two is demonstrated by the policies towards non-lower-working class classes. Fascism attains power through the substitution of one state's form of class domination with another form, generally a middle class based republic segues into an open terrorist dictatorship, run by a few elite.

11:39 PM, June 09, 2005  
Anonymous Bob said...

In response to 'anonymous'(why are people with such courage of conviction compelled to remain anonymous?) , I say, paranoid aren't we. If you are of the right frame of mind, you could apply all 14 points to any nation at any point of time. They could easily be applied to say, Mexico, Canada, Britian, France, Japan. The 14 points remind me of the US in oh, say, 1776, 1812, Lincoln must have been a superb facist, Woodrow Wilson too, ahh FDR too. These seem to me are arbitrary points designed by an academic to try and prove the point that the US is facist, woe unto us. Nice try Dr. Larry, but I hope you didn't use this thesis as the basis for your doctorate, or otherwise I would be severely disappointed in our academia.

3:20 AM, June 10, 2005  
Anonymous Bob said...

Gotta love the unintended side effects of The Patriot Act:

An old Arab who has lived close to New York City for more than 40 years would love to plant potatoes in his garden, but he is alone, old and weak. His son is in college in Paris, so the old man sends him an e-mail:
"Beloved son, I am very sad, because I can't plant potatoes in my garden. I am sure, if only you were here, you would help me and dig up the garden for me. I love you, your father."

The following day, the old man receives a response by e-mail from his son:

"Beloved father, please don't touch the garden. It's there that I have hidden 'the THING'. I love you, too, Ahmed."

At 4 p.m. the U.S. Army, the Marines, the F.B.I., the C.I.A. and the Rangers visit the old man's house, take the whole garden apart, search every inch, but can't find anything. Disappointed, they leave. A day later, the old man receives another e-mail from his son.

"Beloved father, I hope the garden is dug up by now and you can plant your potatoes. That's all I could do for you from here. I love you, Ahmed."

4:55 AM, June 10, 2005  
Anonymous Bob said...

Ok, it is long, but a decent 'Fisking' of Dr. Larry's point, by a Cam Edwards, who I think is a radio personality in Oklahoma: Note, it is somewhat dated in that Britt put out his list in 2003:

1) Powerful and continuing nationalism. Constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, and even worn as clothing.”

My God. I never realized Old Navy was a tool of the fascist state. Thank you for alerting me to this.
Here’s the problem. Mr. Britt’s confused nationalism with being the same thing as patriotism. When you consider a fascist regime (and let’s use Hitler’s Germany, since so many on the left love the Bush/Hitler comparisons), you find that while love of country was professed, it was really love of race, and love of culture. Hitler didn’t care that German Jews had lived there for centuries… they weren’t a part of his plan for Germany. Could you please point out some ethnic group that has been systematically targeted for destruction by our government? No? Hmmm, didn’t think so.
Less than two years ago our country was attacked. Is it any wonder we’ve responded to the attack by embracing our country, by wrapping ourselves in the colors of the flag? It’s not a bad thing that we love our country. It’s certainly far better than the alternative.

“2) Disdain for the recognition of human rights. National security trumps individual liberties, and people accept the ‘need’ to use whatever means necessary to thwart the enemy.”

I don’t know about you, but I would certainly trade national security for the right to get to my next airline flight faster. What individual liberties are you talking about? The Patriot Act? Mr. Britt references that in his 12th point, and surely he wouldn’t duplicate his efforts in order to pad his column. I mean, that’s almost as bad as quoting somebody else for 75 percent of a column you get paid to write.
If Mr. Britt is referring to Camp X-Ray, I would quote the Seattle Post-Intelligencer from April 24th of this year: “There have been no credible reports of abuse nor substantial complaints about the physical conditions of the detainees.” Sorry, but your argument doesn’t hold up.

“3) Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause. Rallying the people in a patriotic frenzy to defeat or eliminate a perceived common threat or foe.”

Who exactly are you talking about? I ask because this sounds more like the anti-war protesters than anything I’ve heard from the Bush administration. The Bush administration’s held no rallies. The anti-war crowd most certainly has. Right wing Americans have been their scapegoats, their unifying cause, their common threat and foe. If you’re referring to the Rallies for America, then I assume Glenn Beck is the next Hitler?

“4) Supremacy of the military. Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.”

Let it be known that Mr. Britt supposedly took a look at not only Nazi Germany, but Mussolini’s Italy, Franco’s Spain, and Pinochet’s Chile. What’s the one thing they all had in common? It wasn’t glamorizing the military. It was mandatory service. A true facist regime wouldn’t care about glamorizing the military because it would conscript young men and women to serve. After all, it’s much easier to indoctrinate someone into your ideology when you have them under your thumb in the military. Sorry, but this argument rings false as well. I won’t say you can’t have fascism with a volunteer army, but it’s darn difficult.

“5) Rampant sexism. The leadership is almost exclusively male-dominated, and gender roles become more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.”

Can you see a trend here? Each statement becomes more and more ridiculous. First of all, show me a society that isn’t still sexist to some degree. Equality of the sexes is a rather new concept, and most certainly wasn’t around in the regimes of Hitler, Franco, and Mussolini. If you’re trying to tell me that George W. Bush is a sexist, I’ll laugh in your face. I’d be more inclined to call him a “mama’s boy”. As for opposition to abortion and rampant homophobia, get real. We live in a country where people are attacked for wanting to put a stop to partial birth abortions. We live in a country where homosexuals gain more rights, not less, by the day. Homosexuality is not only more accepted now than at any point in history, it’s become a freakin’ fad! It’s cool to be bisexual these days (although Anne Heche might have made it a little less so). If homophobia is on the rise, please point out the time in our nation’s history when it was more accepted.

“6) Controlled mass media. Either directly by the government, or indirectly by monopolies sympathetic to a certain world-view. Censorship is common.”

I can only assume that he’s talking about Clear Channel and/or Fox News. He’s obviously not talking about CNN, ABC, NBC, or CBS. Here’s the bottom line on controlled mass media. We have over 200 channels of television now. We have over 100 radio stations (if you subscribe to satellite radio). Here in Oklahoma City we have FOUR different talk stations run by three different companies. There’s a point of view for everybody but the extreme left. You want to know why they aren’t on television or the radio? Because nobody would listen, and mass media’s ultimate goal isn’t to support a government, it’s to make a buck. If people really want to listen to liberals whine about how this country is becoming fascist, then that left wing radio network should take off like gangbusters. And if it does, you better believe other companies will jump on the bandwagon in an effort to keep the cash coming in.

“7) Obsession with national security. Fear is used as a motivational tool.”

The last three times we went to orange alert, I think most Americans didn’t blink an eye. If fear’s being used as a motivational tool, it’s coming from people like Mr. Britt, who are trying to scare us away from the Bush administration.

“8) Religion and government are intertwined. Using the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government’s policies or actions.”

We’ve now moved from fascism to a theocracy. If indeed we’re using the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion, then wouldn’t we also be taking steps to make other religions unacceptable? Wouldn’t be hearing an outcry from various religious groups about their religious freedom being stripped away? Instead, we hear things like this (from the same Seattle Post-Intelligencer article quoted earlier):
The hastily erected tents have been replaced by more permanent structures. Each cell has a metal bed stenciled with a bright yellow arrow pointing to Mecca. The heavily guarded and isolated Islamic world created here on the southeastern coast of Cuba has also undergone some cultural adaptations over the past year.
It is the only U.S. military base where the Muslim call to prayer is heard five times a day over loudspeakers as part of the Pentagon's intensive program to demonstrate respect for the detainees' Islamic faith.
Talk to a Muslim. Talk to a Jew. Talk to a Sikh. Talk to a Buddhist. Ask them what the Bush administration is doing to strip away their liberties.

“9) Corporate power is protected. The industrial and business aristocracy are often the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.”

As opposed to the well oiled government that would result from a mutually harmful business/government relationship? That’s not fascism. In fact, if you look at Hitler, Mussolini, Franco, and Pinochet, you’ll see that it wasn’t big business that put them in power. For Pinochet, it was a military coup. For Franco, it was a civil war (which you could also call a coup). Mussolini and Hitler rose to power because their countries were in political and economic turmoil. They promised prosperity for all (hardly the call of a capitalist), and were lauded for putting “a chicken in every pot” and “making the trains run on time”. Remember, both Mussolini and Hitler’s parties started out as extremist movements, and big business will never support extremism. There’s not enough money to be made by catering to the fringe.

“10) Labor power is suppressed. As a threat to the government’s power, labor unions are either eliminated completely or severely suppressed.”

I guess I’m doing my part as a right wing lackey by going after the NEA time and again. And boy, it’s really too bad to hear that the AFL-CIO was recently eliminated completely. Oh wait… it wasn’t? Hmmm… what could this mean then? Oh, I know!!! Right to work! Of course! Because, you know, there’s nothing fascist at all about forcing someone to join a union, even when they don’t want to.

“11) Disdain for intellectuals and the arts and others in higher education and academics. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Funding for the arts is cut, or eliminated.”

Actually, true fascism would probably increase funding for the arts, because the government would want all art to be state sponsored. You didn’t see too many freelance artists working in Iraq, now did you? As far as intellectuals being treated with disdain, that’s simply not true. People love me. If by intellectuals you mean pompous windbags who try and deceive others who won’t bother checking facts, then yes… I’ll continue to treat those people with disdain. It doesn’t make me a fascist. It makes me intelligent.

“12) Obsession with crime and punishment. The police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws, and people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism.”

Here’s the dig at the Patriot Act. The only problem is, many people are already speaking out against the Patriot Act. Cities across the U.S. are refusing to participate. At least one high ranking Republican in Congress says it needs to go away. So people aren’t willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. I mean, even little old me, a tool of the system, has spoken out against the Patriot Act. And you know what? Ashcroft’s men haven’t come to take me away yet.

“13) Rampant cronyism and corruption. Government by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. National resources and even treasures are stolen.”

Sounds like a great description of the Clinton presidency, doesn’t it?

“14) Fraudulent elections, either as outright shams, or as manipulated by smear campaigns against opposition candidates. The judiciary is often called upon to manipulate or control elections.”

Man, I have to give Britt credit… he even found a way to throw Florida into this litany of lies. If we’re going to say the judiciary helped bring about a facist state in the 2000 elections, remember that the judiciary went against the ruling party in determining a winner. That’s HARDLY the mark of a fascist regime.

Robin Meyers referred to Lawrence Britt as a political scientist, but as you can see, he’s really more of a political alchemist, mixing strange chemicals in an ivory tower, trying to concoct the perfect potion that will turn this republic into a dictatoriship. There’s nothing scientific about his presentation of facts. They don’t stand up to the tiniest scrutiny. Mr. Britt is the author of a soon to be published novel, but he apparently is already getting a head start on writing fiction.

I thought I’d close by quoting the American Heritage Dictionary definition of fascism.
“A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.

We don’t have centralization of authority, as all three branches of government are fully functioning. We don’t have a dictator, as we have elections coming up next year. We don’t have stringent socioeconomic controls, we have a free market. We don’t have suppression of the opposition through terror or censorship (tell me one celebrity or citizen who’s been silenced by the government), and we don’t have a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.

5:48 AM, June 10, 2005  
Anonymous Bob said...

I pretty much agree with this Supreme Court Justice...Read it a guess who said it:

I think the very terminology suggests where we have arrived: at the point of selecting people to write a constitution, rather than people to give us the fair meaning of one that has been democratically adopted. And when that happens, when the Senate interrogates nominees to the Supreme Court, or to the lower courts, you know, “Judge so and so, do you think there is a right to this in the Constitution? You don’t?! Well my constituents’ think there ought to be, and I’m not going to appoint to the court someone who is not going to find that.” When we are in that mode, you realize, we have rendered the Constitution useless, because the Constitution will mean what the majority wants it to mean. The senators are representing the majority. And they will be selecting justices who will devise a constitution that the majority wants.

And that of course, deprives the Constitution of its principal utility. The Bill of Rights is devised to protect you and me against, who do you think? The majority. My most important function on the Supreme Court is to tell the majority to take a walk. And the notion that the justices ought to be selected because of the positions that they will take that are favored by the majority is a recipe for destruction of what we have had for two-hundred years.

To come back to the beginning, this is new. Fifty years old or so, the Living Constitution stuff. We have not yet seen what the end of the road is. I think we are beginning to see. And what it is should really be troublesome to Americans who care about a Constitution that can provide protections against majoritarian rule.

Scalia...who else?

6:28 AM, June 10, 2005  
Blogger Ron said...

can hardly wait to rebut mr okc apoligist(and Bob). Lets suffice to say for now when protesters are put in a pen and "loyalty oaths" are required to see our leader...wellllll. more when I get more time...must go back to work now. :-)

7:03 AM, June 10, 2005  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So Bob has problems with the Donkey. How sad for Bob, There are many Bobs in Roswell but only one Donkey. The Donkey is hardly anonymous, The Donkey is often stopped in the street and told " I heard your ass on the radio". This strikes the Donkey as odd being he is an ass. Many people know who the Donkey is. It is not the Donkey's problem if Bob is ignorant of certain facts.

The Donkey uses this definition.
Main Entry: fas·cism
Pronunciation: 'fa-"shi-z&m also 'fa-"si-
Function: noun
Etymology: Italian fascismo, from fascio bundle, fasces, group, from Latin fascis bundle & fasces fasces
1 often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
2 : a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control

Bob seems a bit sensitive about the Donkey's posts. Bob should stick to watching cars run around a track.

5:29 PM, June 10, 2005  
Anonymous Bob said...

It really doesn't matter who the donkey is, I prefer to debate the issues rather than resort to the typical ad hominem dialectic the donkey seems now to prefer:

An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin, literally "argument [aimed] at the person", but usually translated as "argument to the man"), is a logical fallacy that involves replying to an argument or assertion by addressing the person presenting the argument or assertion rather than the argument itself or an argument pointing out an inconsistency between a view expressed by an individual and the remainder of his or her beliefs.

A traditional, regular (fallacious) ad hominem argument was identified by Aristotle in his On Sophistical Refutations and has the basic form:

Regular Ad Hominem

A makes claim B;
there is something objectionable about A,
therefore claim B is false.

If the Donkey wants a flame war, no problem. It merely seems pretty childish and silly to me to waste the time, effort, and pixels which could be put to better use debating substantive points. I know its more fun and self gratifying to vent upon the poster rather than ideas, but it adds nothing to the discourse. Besides, I was in law enforcement during the 70's, and it just engenders nostalgia in me.

Ok donkey, now we know what definition of fascism you are using, care to enlighten us as to how you apply it to the US in reference to the original post? And you didn't like my post about the garden?

8:05 PM, June 10, 2005  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

After reading Bob's post, the Donkey concluded that Bob incapable of composing a sophisticated arguement. The Donkey searched the web and found identical arguements. Bob simply copied his post from a web page and tried to appear he knew more than he did.
The Donkey can also cut and paste, here is some of the search results:

Ad hominem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A traditional, regular (fallacious) ad hominem argument was identified by Aristotle
in his On Sophistical Refutations and has the basic form: ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem - 28k - Cached - Similar pages

CounterPundit: No Argument at All
A traditional, regular (fallacious) ad hominem argument was identified by Aristotle
in his On Sophistical Refutations and has the basic form: Regular Ad ...
counterpundit.blogspot.com/ 2004/12/no-argument-at-all.html - 15k - Cached - Similar pages

Quarter To Three Forums :: View topic - The Q23 Word of the Day
A traditional, regular (fallacious) argument was identified by Aristotle in his
On Sophistical Refutations and has the basic form: Regular Ad Hominem ...
www.quartertothree.com/ phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=434057& - 112k - Cached - Similar pages

Muiden uskontojen opetusta varten opetussuunnitelman perusteet
A traditional, regular (fallacious) ad hominem argument was identified by Aristotle
in his “On Sophistical Refutations” and has the basic form: ...
www.dlc.fi/~etkirja/dictionary.htm - 513k - Cached - Similar pages

Articles - Ad hominem
A traditional, regular (fallacious) ad hominem argument was identified by Aristotle
in his On Sophistical Refutations and has the basic form: ...

When the Donkey uses some ones ideas, the Donkey says it is some one else's ideas. The Donkey says he used a dictionaty to paste this:
Main Entry: pla·gia·rize
Pronunciation: 'plA-j&-"rIz also -jE-&-
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): -rized; -riz·ing
Etymology: plagiary
transitive senses : to steal and pass off (the ideas or words of another) as one's own : use (another's production) without crediting the source
intransitive senses : to commit literary theft : present as new and original an idea or product derived from an existing source
- pla·gia·riz·er noun

Using ideas and talking about ideas is good. Stealing is bad.

The Donkey does not care what Bob finds fun and self gratifying. The Donkey does not want to think of Bob doing any kind of self gratification. If Bob wants to do Bob's self a big favor, that is Bob's business. Bob is right, the Donkey gets paranoid when Bob speaks of such things. The Donkey thinks Bob should keep Bob's self gratification activities to Bob's self. Bob engendering nostalgia for self gratification in the 70's is too much information for the Donkey. The Donkey did not like the post about the Garden any more than the Donkey likes Bob.

3:17 AM, June 11, 2005  
Anonymous Bob said...

Ok donkey, I see there is no point in expecting anything more than infantile drivel from you, so there is no reason to try and discuss anything with you. I can see now why there is only one donkey in Roswell, in that you have co-opted the bottom rung of the flammer ladder. I can see now why you equate self gratification with masturbation, for you must have done way too much of that to consider any other meaning. You probably think it is a cleaver literary device to twist a meaning, double twist it, and then attack with the falsification. I am sure Michael Moore would be proud of you. In the future, I shall refer to you as the Bonnacon, for you fit that description far better than "the donkey":

from: http://www.eaudrey.com/myth/bonnacon.htm

Description: An Asian animal, like a bison, that emits noxious vapors from is rear if attacked. These vapors can cover 3 acres, and will burn trees in its path.


Features: Has curled horns that cannot hurt anyone.

8:12 AM, June 11, 2005  
Blogger BeWitchingWizard said...

This is way too long and drawn out for us to read esecpially Bob every two seconds, all we have to say is since Bob says you have to be a follower of the Republican party to win the next election proves he and bush and Dick know something about fixing elections in advance.
Linda Maniac and The Maniac

11:51 AM, June 11, 2005  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Good thing DALE doesn't do the Internet thing or he would log on more than every 2 seconds or just keep typing as long as possible.
Got some good links for ya!
Sen. Barbara Boxer of CA (a Dem-means she CARES about the environment) just introduced S1224-the National Oceans Preservation Act of 2005.
http://ga4.org/campaign/saveouroceans/s7wuksrz55x6ew?
(Also, why do so many locals think ecology is a bad thing, and that Green Peace is evil? (Like, oh, these terrible pro-environment people are so terrible and they're all going to the bad place because we're not supposed to care about clean air/water, trees, and animals.)My favorite environmental slogan-"I'd Rather Hug a Tree Than Kiss a Bush!"
Also get on-line and talk about what you think progressives ought to be thinking about and working for (Campaign for America's Future)
http://www.ourfuture.org/conference2005.cfm
Re: fascism-very true of PNAC and y'all ought to check out the message boards on Yahoo to see how many Bush supporters seem to be racist anti-semitic mysogynists. We all know the Ku Klux Klan/white supremecists supported Bush; that's part of why he does so well down South. It makes me sick to see his hypocrisy in celebrating Martin Luther King Day. He gave an award to Colin Powell this year after totally destroying the man's credibility, but was Dr. King's family there? Jesse Jackson wasn't but then he wouldn't stoop so low after Bush "won" another election by disenfranchising thousands of Black voters.
How many people are sick of these stupid "Viva Bush" stickers? What has Bush really done for Hispanics besides appoint Albert "The Torturer" Gonzales Atty. General, speak a little Spanish, and propose to let illegal immigrants stay here temporarily so they can legally take jobs away from Americans? I'm sick of the "W" stands for women thing too. "W" stands for WAR HAWK! Sure, he'll appoint minorities and women but only if they're also neo-cons. The folks in the religious right who back him are also the ones who say women should be subservient to their husbands' authority. Got news for them, Jesus had respect for women and their opinions. He didn't tell women to obey anyone but God-right?

4:27 PM, June 11, 2005  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bob wrote:

"You probably think it is a cleaver literary device to twist a meaning"

This confuses the Donkey, the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary defines cleaver as;

Main Entry: cleav·er
Pronunciation: 'klE-v&r
Function: noun
1 : one that cleaves; especially : a butcher's implement for cutting animal carcasses into joints or pieces
2 : a prehistoric stone tool having a sharp edge at one end

Perhaps Bob is not as clever as he thinks he is. Does Bob have the practical wit or skill in contriving? Does Bob have the physical or mental quickness, deftness, or a great aptitude? Can Bob skillfully use of expedients to achieve one's purpose in spite of difficulties? Does any one see Bob's great skill in constructing or creating anything? Can Bob harness the power of inventing or discovering a new way of accomplishing something?

The Donkey posts, Roswell decides.

11:50 AM, June 12, 2005  
Anonymous Bob said...

Actually Linda Maniac, I said that no one can win from the position of the extremes in political parties...either left or right. I think McGovern and Buchanan have proved that. The next president will be from either party who will capture the middle ground and appeal most to moderates of either side. The extreme left and right bases are there but there are simply not enough votes there to win, so it's the middle ground voters of either side who need to be convinced. Clinton was a consummate master of this, and that is why he was so popular. Hey, I even voted for him.

As to the tirade about a typo (cleaver vrs. clever), to paraprhase Freud : sometimes a typo is just a typo. Wow, that was a lot of time and effort over a typo. Soooorry.

11:25 AM, June 13, 2005  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Donkey read:

Bob said...

"Ok donkey, I see there is no point in expecting anything more than infantile drivel from you, so there is no reason to try and discuss anything with you."

Then the Donkey reads what Bob posted:
"As to the tirade about a typo (cleaver vrs. clever), to paraprhase Freud : sometimes a typo is just a typo. Wow, that was a lot of time and effort over a typo. Soooorry."

The Donkey gets confused. Infantile came from the Latin root word infant, meaning incapable of talk. Drivel is to talk stupidly or slaver. So the intended insult contradicts it self.

The Donkey does not consider a few lines a tirade. The post was hardly protracted,nor was it marked by intemperate, vituperative, or harshly censorious language. Can Bob say the same about his posts? The Donkey thinks not.

Since Bob no desire to dicuss anything with the Donkey, Roswell readers will decide what was posted and what is important. The Donkey believes the only thing Bob is Soooorry for is that he could not spell clever.

10:35 PM, June 13, 2005  
Anonymous Bob said...

Actually, the only thing I am sorry about now is that I forgot the cardinal rule of posting: DFTT--Don't Feed the Trolls. I shall keep that rule near and dear to me in the future.

12:21 PM, June 15, 2005  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

In order for a society to survive, there is a need for rules of conduct. In primitive societies these rules of conduct were mythologized into religious creeds. The rules were then from a divine authority, thus making breaking a rule a sin.
Much later the ancient cardinal virtues: justice, wisdom, bravery, and moderation emerged. Virtues are different from rules. People who have no sense of history or have no history of thought misuse the term, Cardinal rule.

The Donkey knew Bob was not sincere when he said he was ” Soooorry”. His last post confirms his sarcastic manner. Bob had posted “Actually, the only thing I am sorry about now is that I forgot the cardinal rule of posting: DFTT--Don't Feed the Trolls. I shall keep that rule near and dear to me in the future.” So now it is Bob who seems to prefer the typical ad hominem dialectic. The Donkey is not a dwarf of folklore inhabiting caves or hills or dwelling under a bridge. The Donkey is no troll.

10:17 PM, June 15, 2005  
Blogger BeWitchingWizard said...

To Ron and Bob,

Liars divide us and only those who tell the truth can unite us, this leaves out people like Bob who can't remember what he said, and I certainly don't beleive he ever voted for Clinton, just another Bob Lie, live with them folks he's your liar.

The Maniac and Linda Maniac Bye bye - you can take us off your mailing list

4:11 PM, June 20, 2005  
Blogger Dedanna said...

I'm still astounded that such crap from everyone involved was posted in this coffee table.

Everyone contributed to making slams on each other; all of you did. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

And taking it out on the blog owner such as the post above here was extremely uncalled for; he didn't even post in this Coffee Table; Maniac, we've seen your good-byes before, only for you to return anyway.

Grow up, all of you.

7:48 AM, June 22, 2005  
Blogger The Donkey said...

The blog owner did post on this coffee table, that would be ron.

And since you claim every one is involved, do not be so hard on your self for slamming, posting crap and telling people to grow up.

10:12 PM, June 25, 2005  

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