Is It Impeachment Yet?
Bill Moyers featured conservative, former Reagan official Bruce Fein and a liberal journalist from The Nation on the subject of administrative malfeasance concerning the Constitution and the idea of impeachment.
I am happy to say I got several emails on this. I saw the end of it the other night and have since viewed the whole thing. It is a 45 minute program. If you have DSL the PBS site streams pretty well. Take some time to watch when you can.
Watch it here.
It is vital that we hold the President and Vice President accountable to their oath to faithfully execute the laws of the United States. Whether they like them or not. It is not their prerogative to change or adjust the laws they don't like. To allow this to happen sets presedence. To allow this to continue under any President or party is utterly unacceptable. The argument to hold on to these powers makes far more sense if Bush and Cheney are not held accountable. Those that argue for these powers for the current administration are also making the argument for the next administration. Bush and Cheney MUST be held accountable even if it concludes after they are out of office. We must PROVE we are a nation of laws and not a nation of men.
Are we subjects or are we citizens?
posted by Ron at 12:53 PM
11 Comments:
Ron,
In theory, I agree. They most definitely deserve to be impeached. They, also, deserve to be tried for war crimes and for treason. The House might vote to impeach or bring charges against them. I don´t know what kind of a majority is necessary, maybe a simple one. However, The Senate would have to try them and it would take a 2/3 majority vote to convict and remove them from office. There´s no way the extremely partisan GOP Senators are going to vote for conviction,esp. not in an election year. In addition, guess who gets to preside over the trial of Bush and probably Cheney? Chief Justice Roberts who owes his appointmentto Dubya.
What would be the point, Ron? We can´t get rid of them, it would be a circus, tie up the Senate´s time, and prevent even more of the Dem´s legislationfrom getting through. Plus, Limbaugh, Coulter, etc. would start screaming that B & C were being victimized for trying to protect us from terrorists and the sheep would come out in huge numbers to vote.
I understand why Pelosi and Reid were forced to take impeachment off the table. It sux, but all the criticism of the Dems in Congress is going to accomplish is to divide us and conquer for the GOP, esp. the far right. Why do we want to help Cheney when he is the enemy. We have to stick together against our common foe, Ron. Do you want McCain or worse yet Thompson in The White House? We´ve got no choice and it´s because of the /%$# GOP, not the Dems.
DC
If The Chief Justice presides over the President's impeachment does he also preside over the VP's? That would make it Roberts. Is it possible that the President Pro Tempore presides over the VP's? That would make it Robert Byrd of W VA-ooh, Cheney wouldn't like that.
DC
PS Re: the 2/3 vote, that is a way The Constitution is working against us cuz of the partisanship of the GOP (not to mention traitors like Lieberman and the twit from LA). All we have now is a stalemate. If the GOP gets back the majority then there will be NO checks and balances cuz the Party will then control all 3 branches. In a way, with the stalemate, we may as well not think we have the checks and balances now. It totally sux and Cheney and Co can get away with everything. I hate Republicans!!!
DC
It totally sux and Cheney and Co can get away with everything.
NO THEY CAN'T! We have to hold them accountable. It is vital to our system. The radical rights swiftboating is old. When we focus on this as a nation I think the right will lose. They got nothin but namecalling and bumper stickers.
I still think it's too damned late for impeachment. I think after the election, we oughta just hang 'em by their balls and beat the sh* out of them to barely within an inch of their lives (literally), then make 'em live to regret it in prison by continual beatings like they did those at Guantanamo Bay.
BTW: my daughter found something I think you'd like to read, Ron: Filling Gaps in Iraq, Then Finding a Void at Home
I agree fully that it is our responsibility to hold them accountable, but I have to ask: What good would impeachment do now? We've got an election coming up next year anyway; are you honestly going to tell me that you consider missing out on a few months of the presidency (or vice-presidency) is punishment equivalent to the crime?
Let them be booted from office, then go after them with full power of the law, not barred by executive privilege. And be patient enough to wait until they are out office, because a healthily balanced system of checks and balances -- or at least a system that's more balanced than the one we've got now -- will make the process a damn sight easier.
Bingo.
As long as they are held accountable. Without that we have set ourselves up to fail. As I see it there is no use in waiting. The sooner the world sees us holding them accountable the sooner they will wonder if we have come to our senses. It is a necessary and huge step toward redeaming our standing with the rest of the world.
Ron, I agree that they should be impeached and then some and maybe we do have a responsibility to do it, but I agree with Kim, too. What good is it going to do us now? It's really too late. What we need to do is to focus on putting a lot more Dems in Congress and a Dem in The White House. Then, B & C can be charged when they have left office which is the only way they're going to get jail time, anyway. I, also, want 9/11 to be investigated for real and Cheney to be tried for imploding the Towers, (assuming he did and the evidence points that way).
Let me rephrase that. I agree that they DESERVE to be impeached. Much as I would like to have the world see us making them accountable for their CRIMINAL and TREASONOUS actions, all we can do is for the House to bring charges against them (impeachment). You know as well as I do what the likelihood that the *&^%$# partisan Republicans in the Senate will vote to convict them and remove them from office is. Don't you think that Limbaugh, Hannity, O'Reilly, Coulter, etc. are going to start screaming to the sheeple that we are trying to punish B & C for protecting us from terrorists?
We don't dare to do this during an election year. We have to keep and hopefully increase our majority in Congress. And we need a Democrat in The White House. If the sheeple get scared into a huge turnout at the polls, someone like Fred Thompson will be elected. Any Republican will surely pardon B & C just like Ford pardoned Tricky Dicky.
Bush, Cheney, etc. can be charged after a Dem President who won't pardon them takes office and then hopefully they will be convicted and Cheney, esp., will be thrown into the deepest darkest hole we can find for the rest of his unnatural life.
Unlike some Dems who are blaming their own Party for the failure to impeach these creepsa(among other things) people in other countries are pretty politically savvy. I'm sure many of them know what the problem is and who is to blame-the GOP.
It sux, Ron, but it's the sad reality and if we're gonna get these jerks we've gotta be patient and get back the power to do it first.
DC
I'd still rather see a Lib or a Green Party get in there, or even an Independent. I'm sick of Cons & Dems both.
Speaking of treasonous actions, guess what?
this is how little they care about our national security (NOT)
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