Saturday, August 20, 2005

I'm A Baaaad Boy

Ok, I guess it's time for an apology. With some of my recent thoughts in the comments section I have not set a very good example, maybe tarnishing those I choose to "represent". Actually, I only represent myself but many others methinks generally agree on a vast array of issues. I think all of us that are free thinkers have some liberal and some conservative stances on things. As much as some of my comments may infer this I don't believe in censorship. Being human I also have a limit on my patience. Even though I do consider myself an advocate of peace and harmony as the ultimate goal of the world I also can get mad and want to fight from time to time. Don't be suprised if all these things come out. As much as I would like to be a robotron I wasn't made that way. Perfect I certainly ain't. Regardless of what I have said recently I do invite everyone to post but I would hope that as you comment, remember that if you expect others to be open, just a little , to your ideas you must be willing to do the same for them or you will likely only find great resistance. If you have an unmovable attitude be sure you will be met with the same. I honestly fear for this country more than anytime in my life(which is more than a few years :-). We appear to me to now be a hated ,totally dependant nation. This does not bode well for our postiton in the world. Let's all fix it together.


Blogger Jim said...

It is frustrating to attempt to engage in debate, to offer credible sources for arguments, and having posters ignore your arguments, evidence and sources and simply push their point, their "truth". If you dispute their argument, then you are a moron, or worse yet, a commie liberal.

It would be refreshing to have someone who disagrees actually read and debate your points, provide credible citations to refute your citations and realize that honest people can have intelligent but opposing views.

If someone spews talking points and claims that those who don't accept the talking points are idiots, they are only demonstrating their lack of curiosity and their willingness to accept whatever their dear leaders tell them.

Keep on going, Ron. There must be people out there who actually enjoy the debate.

4:51 PM, August 20, 2005  
Blogger The Game said...

well said ron, and true.

10:58 PM, August 20, 2005  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ron I appreciate what you have said here and agree but I am not nearly as pessemistic. I do believe it is important to hear both sides of issues that is why i visit you blog, occasionaly stream Air america and have seen Ferenheit 9/11. I enjoy the debate and like seeing how the other side thinks and I for one do not engage in personal attacks on people mostly because I do not know you people and its likely we would be friends despite our political differences.

Jim just because they might be talking points does not mean they are not the truth, I am sure your side uses talking points as well. I really hate that term "talking points"


5:12 AM, August 21, 2005  
Blogger The Game said...

Agree mark...just like when people here say that I am just walking the party line...maybe I actually believe it...

How many times have I heard "Bush is a liar" or how the war is a failure...there are many facts to dispute all the claims here...

and it would be healthy for the people here to atleast listen to them...

Sometimes my "facts" might not seam like facts, and they may be a stretch sometimes...but I think the purpose of a debate is to prove a point...don't think there is anything wrong with that...if you believe that you are right you try and get others to believe the same thing...

Ron, you blog is always the second or third I go to..

9:48 AM, August 21, 2005  
Blogger Ron said...

Thanks mark and game. I guess my tipping point came when the arguement went to war is good in general. That is just beyond my capacity to understand. My spiritual principals won't allow me to buy into this in any way shape or form but so be it if you think so. I guess we will just have to see which idea brings the most followers in the long run.

12:30 PM, August 21, 2005  
Blogger Jim said...

Regarding talking points: it could be that both sides use them, but maybe it's just the republican party discipline that they can get the key words and phrases out on a moment's notice, and every one of them says the exact same thing.

So when I say talking points here, I'm talking about echoing the exact same words and phrases that the republican pundits say over and over without citing sources. And Drudge by himself doesn't count because he is not a source unless you use a citation that he provides.

4:34 PM, August 21, 2005  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why is the game avoiding the military?

4:40 PM, August 21, 2005  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

ron here is a quote from John Stuart Mill that sums up my opinion of war before reading please note that I wish war could be avoided in every instance but sometimes we must fight them.

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling, which thinks that nothing is worth war is worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature...." John Stuart Mill


4:46 PM, August 21, 2005  
Blogger Ron said...

Mark, I agree that sometimes war is an ugly necessity and I am not afraid to you must have determined by now.:-) I am in favor of Afganistan..the war on terror. Against Bosnia and Iraq.

5:53 PM, August 21, 2005  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Will Mark find it helpful to enlist now? The military needs men and women.

6:42 PM, August 21, 2005  
Blogger The Game said...

Ron, war is not "good", but sometimes it can be the only way to defeat evil...I have listed those examples before... far as I know I do not get an email form the GOP telling me what to say...(actually I do)..but I usually delete it...Drudge can be a source, especially when he breaks a story that the MSM has and won't report...

9:50 PM, August 21, 2005  
Blogger Jim said...

I don't consider Drudge a source anymore than I consider Al Franken a source. If they get material from a source and cite that source so that it can be evaluated for credibility, fine, but otherwise either of them might as well be pulling it out of their butts.

10:26 PM, August 21, 2005  
Blogger Ron said...

Just a curious note..have you noticed how the term "evil" has been a rather notable part of the lexicon these days? Maybe a part of the invasion of religion in our politics?

4:46 AM, August 22, 2005  
Blogger Jim said...

[Sarcasm alert]

Watch out, Ron. If you question that the motives of the enemy are evil then you might be branded a liberal or relativist who won't or can't make moral judgements because you're an atheist. Only religion teaches moral behavior, apparently.

9:23 AM, August 22, 2005  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well, I think you're right on this one, Ron, and I do it, too. One of the reasons I call myself "The DemoCat" is that I can be pretty catty at times. I imagine that I could find some kind of middle ground with a lot of conservatives. Who knows? Maybe even "The Game" and I could agree on SOME things (probably not politics). I just wish you guys would stop accepting everything Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, etc. say as the gospel truth. I'm a liberal, but that doesn't mean I agree with Michael Moore about everything. Plus I LIKE
Joe Lieberman even if he did speak out in favor of the war and I have had to argue that one with several liberals. He may be conservative on SOME things but is mostly socially liberal and an environmentalist which I really do like. If Joe had been a big time conservative, Al Gore wouldn't have picked him as a running mate-right? At any rate, ya gotta balance the ticket to attract both your liberal and your more conservative voters. I would've liked Lieberman as Kerry's running mate, an idea which horrifies most of my liberal friends.

2:33 PM, August 22, 2005  
Blogger Ron said...

I know Jim. Anyone who premeditatively kills innocent people could be considered evil in my book. I still think it's use today is a subliminal religious reference and way overused these days. Hell, lots of people have called ME evil..and the people I support evil..evil evil evil.It's a buzzword.

7:38 PM, August 22, 2005  

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